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  #1  
Old 08-13-2013, 01:44 PM
John J. John J. is offline
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Default Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Hi All,

First let me vent and express how pissed I am that I just bought about $20K of gear from Avid (C24//HD Native + PTools 10/11/Omni) and now that I want to have a C24 HD cable kit custom made with Mogami/Switchcraft parts, I also have to PAY them $40-$80 bucks just to talk to them about my custom cabling? Rip-off!

If someone here could direct me to a human I could speak with I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll have the C24 sitting in an Argosy desk, the style which includes six rackmount spaces to the left and right of the C24. Installed in the racks will be various class a mic press as well as my Apogee Symphony system. The mac pro tower with the HD Native card will be sitting on the ground under/beside the desk. So all pieces to my new studio regarding the control room board/audio i/o and mac pro sit within 6-8 feet of each other.

I've got the list for all 13 required cables to go in and out of the C24 etc., most of them showing to be 25 feet in length. For my upcoming custom cables, I need to speak to someone who knows the ins and outs of every cable, so as to inform me how many of these I can have made much smaller than 25 feet. Obviously this will save me money as well as space for placing all that cabling around the desk.

Unless I'm fortunate enough for Avid to chyme in here, I would appreciate if anyone could suggest someone to speak to by phone to help me decide which custom cables I can have made smaller than the standard 25 ft for my specific configuration. Thanks in advance.

Regards,

- John
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2013, 03:09 PM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

You've kinda got your worries backwards...

You run into problems when cables are too long as they can degrade the signal.

But, as long as they're long enough to reach where they need to go, you shouldn't have any problems with cables shorter than Avid's standard 25 feet (or whatever it is).

Bulk cable is relatively cheap...it's installing the connectors (and the cost of the connectors) that can run up the price.

I imagine Avid came up with their "standard" length as one that would best serve most of their customers (and result in the least number of complaints about them being to short.).

When you're measuring, make sure you include enough extra length to properly route and support the cables...you don't want a heavy cable hanging off a DB25 connector because it can gradually loosen the connector on the equipment.

Regarding your choice of Mogami/Switchcraft...keep in mind that the cables associated with the C|24 are typically connected once and left that way (unless you among the group who, like me, think they have to take everything apart and put it back together every three months or so).

So, the cables aren't subject to the stresses that something like a mic cable or guitar cable has to endure. It's your money, so you can buy the custom Mogami/Switchcraft cable if you want to, but you will probably not receive any benefit over the "standard" Avid C|24 cable package.

Good luck...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

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  #3  
Old 08-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Drew Mazurek's Avatar
Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

You don't want to be talking to Avid about cabling.

http://www.redco.com


Talk with a company like this if turnkey custom cabling with the least amount of fuss is what you're after.
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  #4  
Old 08-14-2013, 09:00 AM
John J. John J. is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Thanks for the input guys,

Thing is I need to speak with someone to explain to me exactly the function of each of the 13 cables. I know what some of the cables are for, some I don't. Once I'm clear on all of their functions I'll know which cables I don't need (i.e. 5.1 surround) and what custom lengths I'll need. The cables I'm speaking of are:

• DB25-DB25, LINE OUT 1-8,25FT
• DB25-DB25, LINE OUT 9-16,25FT
• DB25-XLRM, MON SPKRS OUT 1-8,25FT
• DB25-TRS, EXT SOURCE IN 1-8,25FT
• DB25-DB25, PT SOURCE IN 1-8,25FT
• DB25-TRS SUBMIX IN 1-4 L/R,25FT
• DB25-TRS SUBMIX IN 5-8 L/R,25FT
• DB25-XLRF MIC IN 1-8,25FT
• DB25-XLRF MIC IN 9-16,25FT
• DB25-TRS LINE/DI IN 1-8,25FT
• DB25-TRS LINE/DI IN 9-16,25FT
• DB25-DB25 SURROUND IN 1-8,25FT
• DB25-TRS CUE OUTPUTS OUT 1-8 L/R,25FT

Regards,

- John
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  #5  
Old 08-14-2013, 09:11 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Call your dealer? Or a custom cable manufacturer as suggested. Trying to get an Avid support person to answer these type of questions may not be the best way to go about this.

The function of all these cables should be pretty obvious, if you plan on using the C|24 preamps/DI/Line in then you need the corresponding cabling (personally I'd avoid the C|24 preamp as much as possible), if not and you just want to go to the HD IO box(es) line ins then you just need whatever cabling you would have between you outboard preamps and the HD IO boxes. If some of the cables are not obvious to you then have a read of the C|24 manual, there is piles of information in there on C|24 pinouts/connections.

The best way to handle deeper questions, along the line of "this is what I want to do at a high level" and here are my entire studio assets so far and how do I best hook them all together is to probalby hire a constant. Your dealer may also provide that service, or may be able to recommend somebody.

But let me understand this, you have only an Omni interface?, no HD IO as well? Any other analog inputs you need to run to control room or studio monitors etc? Do you need the standalone/hardware mixer features of the c|24 for any reason? Do you need more than the two preamps the Omni has has on board? How many or each: mic preamps, DI and line inputs do you need in total? How many sets of monitors do you have? All just stereo or 5.1? If just an Omni there is often very little to wire up here. I would definitely not buy a full cable kit from Avid or anybody else. And I'd use the Omni preamp and for simple setups I'd just use the Omni Monitor outputs direct to the monitors (so you may need *no* DB-25 cables to the C|24 at all).

Edit: I also realize you mentioned a Symphony and outboard preamps. The Symphony is a part of this HD system? So again the question is if you have outboard preamps (or preamps in the Symphony?), do you want to route any mic/di/line via the C|24? (again I'd avoid that if at all possible). And if your monitoring setup is simple just use the outputs on the Omni.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 08-14-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:49 AM
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John_Toolbox John_Toolbox is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Just a fair warning. DB25 connectors (and all other screw type connectors) can have either metric threads or american threads on the little nuts that the cable fasteners screw into. If you use the wrong type of fastener or nut:

1. you will break off the cable fastener in the nut, making both the connector and the nut useless
2. the fastener will go into the nut, but not hold tightly... and probably strip out the nut. The fastener may also be damaged and end up stripping out any other nuts that it is threaded in to.

Without these things nice and tight, the connecting pins and socket of the DB25 will wear out, causing intermittent connections. Even with proper fasteners, you should still support the cable with zip ties or something so that the weight of it isn't pulling down.
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:36 PM
John J. John J. is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
I also realize you mentioned a Symphony and outboard preamps. The Symphony is a part of this HD system? So again the question is if you have outboard preamps (or preamps in the Symphony?), do you want to route any mic/di/line via the C|24? (again I'd avoid that if at all possible). And if your monitoring setup is simple just use the outputs on the Omni.
Thanks Darryl,

I'm using the C24 primarily as a controller for Pro Tools HD. With the Apogee Symphony connected via Digilink cable to HD Native card, I'm looking to record small sessions off the floor using no more than 16 channels simultaneously. The Apogee 8 mic pres + 8 more class A mic pres I have will allow me to bypass the C24 pres altogether, connecting directly to the Symphony 16 analog input card. Analog output from the Symphony will go directly into my power amp; I have 2 sets of monitors connected to the amp which I control with a stereo switcher system, again bypassing the C24.

- John
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2013, 05:44 PM
John J. John J. is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Toolbox View Post
Just a fair warning. DB25 connectors (and all other screw type connectors) can have either metric threads or american threads on the little nuts that the cable fasteners screw into. If you use the wrong type of fastener or nut:

1. you will break off the cable fastener in the nut, making both the connector and the nut useless
2. the fastener will go into the nut, but not hold tightly... and probably strip out the nut. The fastener may also be damaged and end up stripping out any other nuts that it is threaded in to.

Without these things nice and tight, the connecting pins and socket of the DB25 will wear out, causing intermittent connections. Even with proper fasteners, you should still support the cable with zip ties or something so that the weight of it isn't pulling down.
Thanks for the tip John, would you suggest any specific fasteners I can request from the company who will custom build the cables?

- John
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  #9  
Old 08-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John J. View Post
Thanks Darryl,

I'm using the C24 primarily as a controller for Pro Tools HD. With the Apogee Symphony connected via Digilink cable to HD Native card, I'm looking to record small sessions off the floor using no more than 16 channels simultaneously. The Apogee 8 mic pres + 8 more class A mic pres I have will allow me to bypass the C24 pres altogether, connecting directly to the Symphony 16 analog input card. Analog output from the Symphony will go directly into my power amp; I have 2 sets of monitors connected to the amp which I control with a stereo switcher system, again bypassing the C24.

- John
Then that you don't need a single DB-25 cable connected to the C|24.

OK next problem...

Darryl
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:05 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John J. View Post
Thanks for the tip John, would you suggest any specific fasteners I can request from the company who will custom build the cables?

- John
You should really *not* need to do that, find a reputable company who makes cables and have them tell you what they use. Specing a specific connector can end up just wasting money. All USA cable manufacturers will use 4-40 lock/jackscrews so metric should not be an issue. Again just find somebody competent, describe you high level goals and let them earn their money.

But again its not an issue as you don't need *any* DB-25 cables.

Darryl
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