Mix not loud enough for the car

[Stoneroses63]

I was burning a couple of rough mixes which I thought I had pretty loud on the master (monitor and headphone levels were low), but he said they werent loud in his car and had to crank it to hear it...What can I do to make it louder like his other cds...Thank you

[albee1952]

That's one of the things that gets done in mastering. I like to insert Waves L2 to punch up the level. Don't go crazy with this as it can sound bad if over done. The key with L2 is to never let it hit more than 3db of reduction. If you still need more, insert another L2. I would explain to your client that the level boost is part of mastering but you can give them a better idea by processing as above. If the finals are going to be mastered, I would send mixes that do not have the L2 treatment.

[IntelDoc]

If you still need more, insert another L2.

WHAT!!! You are joking right...

Please tell me that you are joking.

Dude, tell your band to budget for mastering. Sounds like you have no idea how to master and let the mastering engineer who does it for a living d it. Mix it to your ability and have the budget take it to a professional mastering house.


Doc

[dubhausdisco1]

Yer right doc, but that's the sad state of the "prosumer" market... I would add to the original poster that "cranking it up" in the car is a great idea, as far as listening to the dynamic structure of the material. That's what all of the top mastering dudes request, rather than adding the L2 & listening to a novice ME squashing the mix.I would say to the 2nd poster to keep the day job, as that sort of bulls*** advice is why so much modern music sounds so horrible.

[guitar131]

I think you're being a little hard on Albee1952. What I think he was trying to say is that multiple instances of more moderate compression can sometimes give a less "squashed" and more "musical" sound than slamming a mix 1 time. I don't think he was suggesting that the final product be givin out with the L2...he just wanted to give the guy an idea of what it might sound like if it had been mastered. That's how I understood it. And no, it wasn't "bull****" advice...I'm sure the guy knows what he is doing if you check his profile. I just got done doing a project with the guy who mixed a portion of Beyonce's last recording, as well as many of the Destiny's Child recordings, and he has done, in principle, the exact thing that Albee was suggesting to do on many occasions. In fact, he did so many things that a lot of us would consider absolute "no-no's", that I'm starting to reconsider what exactly a "no-no" is!
On a similar note, the T-racks pre-sets are pretty good if you have a general idea of what mastering is supposed to do..but yes, it's best left to the guys with the know how! Cheers

[dubhausdisco1]

"the T-racks pre-sets are pretty good if you have a general idea of what mastering is supposed to do.."
enough said.....

Oh and who ever said Beyonce's stuff is what we as audio engineers should be striving for?!?!?
What about that horrid mess called "love crazy" or whatever it was called.... Just because something sells millions doesn't make it something to aspire to. I was just giving advice based on personal experience balanced with textbook digital audio knowledge.
Yes, I will be hard on someone who says that you should line up 2 L2's in a row with nothing to stand on after that....

[guitar131]

Dave- I'm not sure why you're so angry, but I was just trying to give a different point of view. You are certainly entitled to not like anything done by Beyonce or Destiny's Child, but please don't discount the knowledge of a 25 year veteran who is on staff at Sony in NYC. If it sounded like name dropping, I apologize, but I learned a LOT from this guy...some of which I wanted to share. If you're going to call people's reply's to your post "bull****", then expect people to not respect anything else that you have to say. It's OK to not know why your mixes are not "loud" like your friends other CD's. That's a great reason to post a question and gain knowledge from more experienced people. But the fact that you didn't know why tells volumes about your own experiences and knowledge. That's why I chimed in.....after reading your second post I should have known better.

[dubhausdisco1]

please, guitar131, let's not split hairs here... anyone worth their salt in this business has to field these questions daily.. I was not being hard on the original poster, if you read correctly. My harshness was saved for the silly response(and all too common one) concerning squashing the hell out of the program material in order to display a "professional" product. I don't care whose name you drop, all I care about is people starting out on the right foot. The digital era in recording has made too many powerful tools accessible to way too many people, and there has too be some kind of restraint involved.
If you want to continue the trend of nasty overcompressed cd's, then go right ahead, but I for one would like to see a return(actually not a return but an advent to) well recorded discs which let the consumer decide the volume level....
Oh, and I am not angry, it's just that folks get SO upset when someone has something to add that makes sense and may chap some people hides...
I notice also every time there is a post like this that the old boys (no disrespect at all, fellas, I really don't blame ya!) duck out right away... I guess they got tired of preaching proper audio methods long ago... once again , I don't blame them a bit...

[ondruspat]

Didn't anyone actually read though Stoneroses63's post? He was asking how to make a ROUGH MIX louder, not for tips on mastering.

Making it louder by squishing the hell out of it is fine if the client just wants to listen to the rough tracks, as long as it's parts are still intelligble. The client might just want to hear his or her performance as opposed to a proper mix. I do mixes like that all the time. I just make sure that the client is clear on the concept of "rough mix" as opposed to final product.

As we all know "mastering" is a whole world unto itself, but we don't have to worry about that until there is actual "final product".

[jonah day]

One L2 would give enough level anyhow, without squishing anything.