The fastest way to start playback

[Darryl Ramm]

And yet... opening up a reasonably small audio + VI session on Pro Tools 2023.3 on Ventura on a 2019 15" i9 MBP and just using the Mac Speakers as playback engine (sitting outside, too lazy to walk inside and grab an RME interface), and toggling the transport with the space bar results in seemingly instant transport behavior. So what is it? Video Engine being used? Just large session behavior? HDX bug? Hybrid Engine bug? Session not being cached in the Disk Cache? Some system optimization missing? Keyboard issue? Some keyboard utility or other app slowing things down? This is *not* a necessarily expected behavior. Biggest issue to me is the crappy spongey MBP keyboard, a mechanical wired Keychron keyboard makes that transport behavior feel much crisper.

I've already made troubleshooting suggestions.

[Warube]

Originally Posted by JingleDjango

Yeah, this is an annoyance I ran up against recording dx for animation and video games, where we want the recorder always running but need to to interrupt the transport to pull selects between takes. On the old TDM systems I could hit stop and then record as fast as my fingers would move and trust that PT would never miss a beat. The transport was instantaneous. As soon as we moved from PT10 to PT12 we had to start being a lot more methodical about when and how we did the same moves.

Is there anything binding you to Pro Tools? Any reason you couldn't use Ableton Live? I believe it's become a very popular option for sync'ing performance to backing tracks.

I've been working on live concerts with Pro Tools for 15 years, and I trust Pro Tools for its ability to make instant judgments and recoveries. I am aware that Ableton Live is popular, so I am considering studying it in the future.

[Warube]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And yet... opening up a reasonably small audio + VI session on Pro Tools 2023.3 on Ventura on a 2019 15" i9 MBP and just using the Mac Speakers as playback engine (sitting outside, too lazy to walk inside and grab an RME interface), and toggling the transport with the space bar results in seemingly instant transport behavior. So what is it? Video Engine being used? Just large session behavior? HDX bug? Hybrid Engine bug? Session not being cached in the Disk Cache? Some system optimization missing? Keyboard issue? Some keyboard utility or other app slowing things down? This is *not* a necessarily expected behavior. Biggest issue to me is the crappy spongey MBP keyboard, a mechanical wired Keychron keyboard makes that transport behavior feel much crisper.

I've already made troubleshooting suggestions.

I think you might feel it's fast, but I believe everyone has about a 2400 samples lag. It's a special use case, so I don't think many people notice it.
I've been using it like an instrument or sampler for 15 years, so I'm having some trouble. Thank you for all your suggestions.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Warube

I think you might feel it's fast, but I believe everyone has about a 2400 samples lag. It's a special use case, so I don't think many people notice it.
I've been using it like an instrument or sampler for 15 years, so I'm having some trouble. Thank you for all your suggestions.

I agree that may be the case, but it still does not seem like that large a lag. I'll see if I can think of a nice test to measure it.

[its2loud]

2400 sample lag is 48ms at 48k. This is negligible in a real world situation and splitting hairs.

If you triggering pro tools manually factor in any human lag. There’s no way you finger is going to be sample accurate.

You should consider trigger Pro Tools to playback while locking to incoming MTC or LTC. Pro Tools is not an instrument.

ChatGPT says
“ On average, a simple reaction time—measuring the time it takes to react to a basic stimulus like a light or sound—ranges from about 200 to 300 milliseconds (0.2 to 0.3 seconds). However, this can vary significantly between individuals.”

Food for thought.

[Warube]

Originally Posted by its2loud

2400 sample lag is 48ms at 48k. This is negligible in a real world situation and splitting hairs.

If you triggering pro tools manually factor in any human lag. There’s no way you finger is going to be sample accurate.

You should consider trigger Pro Tools to playback while locking to incoming MTC or LTC. Pro Tools is not an instrument.

ChatGPT says
“ On average, a simple reaction time—measuring the time it takes to react to a basic stimulus like a light or sound—ranges from about 200 to 300 milliseconds (0.2 to 0.3 seconds). However, this can vary significantly between individuals.”

Food for thought.

When I was using Protools v9 with equipment like Mac Pro, HD I/O, and HD card, there was almost no lag. That's why I'm investigating it, as it might be lost technology.

[nednednerb]

I think it might be relevant to point out that incredibly well rehearsed, well practiced, well learned rhythm, and engaged musical consciousness, with warm up, might render the reaction time "no longer simple."

Just more food for thought!

Musicians may not just be following a tempo robotically, it might shift, and even do so freely and without anticipation based on one lead player, with others following "smoothly."

There could be some "rough" ways to measure a response time of a drummer by seeing just how on time they are especially in the space of slight variations over time.

Notwithstanding "groove", it would seem to me a more complex and fast reaction time would make for "tighter" or "greater" drumming.

Maybe a solution is learning intuitively what seems to be a steady or constant latency, then hitting the button however many milliseconds early?

Or, test a demo of another software to see if it just feels correct rather than wrong, and go with it.

[Warube]

Originally Posted by nednednerb

I think it might be relevant to point out that incredibly well rehearsed, well practiced, well learned rhythm, and engaged musical consciousness, with warm up, might render the reaction time "no longer simple."

Just more food for thought!

Musicians may not just be following a tempo robotically, it might shift, and even do so freely and without anticipation based on one lead player, with others following "smoothly."

There could be some "rough" ways to measure a response time of a drummer by seeing just how on time they are especially in the space of slight variations over time.

Notwithstanding "groove", it would seem to me a more complex and fast reaction time would make for "tighter" or "greater" drumming.

Maybe a solution is learning intuitively what seems to be a steady or constant latency, then hitting the button however many milliseconds early?

Or, test a demo of another software to see if it just feels correct rather than wrong, and go with it.

"I used to use Pro Tools LE and 003 Rack for overseas performances, which I could carry with me. With the 003, there was of course a time lag, so I adjusted by pressing the button ahead of time. As I've mentioned several times, I've been working with Pro Tools HD for 15 years with the specification that it can start just in time, and I'm just investigating that. Now I have no choice but to press ahead of time as it can't be resolved, but I was wondering if there's anyone in the world who thinks the same way."

[nednednerb]

I definitely think the same way...

When I press PLAY, I want that.

Have you tried a transport button on a MIDI/controller rather than keyboard spacebar?

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by Warube

"I used to use Pro Tools LE and 003 Rack for overseas performances, which I could carry with me. With the 003, there was of course a time lag, so I adjusted by pressing the button ahead of time. As I've mentioned several times, I've been working with Pro Tools HD for 15 years with the specification that it can start just in time, and I'm just investigating that. Now I have no choice but to press ahead of time as it can't be resolved, but I was wondering if there's anyone in the world who thinks the same way."

I think the same way.

Reaper plays instantly for me. And very stable. I'm much more comfortable with PT but I'd consider Reaper live. Actually I've used it as a multitrack recorder.