Stuck in a rut. What would you do?

[dfusion]

Well, this is probably going to sound rediculous to most you, but I cannot decide whether I should stay on the PC platforum and get a 002 or get a Mac and upgrade my Logic software. Have any of you hit this cross road? I'm assuming since I'm in the PTLE Windows forum that I can say I know what your decision was. I'm just looking to see what influenced your decisions in an effort to help resolve my dilema.

At the start of 2003 I invested quite a bit of money into my Dell Dimension 4600, two Dell 20" UltraSharp flat panels, ram, hard drive, etc. in order to make the most of my Logic Platinum software and associated plugins. I knew eventually it would all have to go away since Apple took over Emagic. I'm budgeting for next year and I truly don't know what to do - stay or go?

I write electronic music as a hobby with the intention of someday publishing some music. Logic works great and I feel I can do just about everything in one application but I've never really tried anything else other than Cubase and I didn't like it. Anyway, the cost of cross-grading to Mac (hardware/software) will be roughly $5,000 give or take. It seems like a lot of money to spend just to cross-grade, so I've looked at my PC options. With release of the RTAS/VST wrapper and Angus confirming my Spectrasonics and Novation plugins work 100%, I'm not seeing as much of a "need" to have a Mac anymore. Of course writing dance music means I sequence a lot and Pro Tools is not known for Midi so this could be the biggest drawkback. There will probably be things I'm used to in Logic that won't appear in Pro Tools and I'll painfully work around them the first few months, but in the end what it comes down to is having a system that works. I love Pro Tools' 2 screen concept.

Well, I'm just wondering if anyone else hit this type of road block at some point. It's stressing me out as I think on one hand going to Mac has the up-front sticker shock, but then hopefully nothing more for a while. Then again, I've been looking to incorporate Pro Tools into my life in the near future anyway and since I'm a simple kind of guy, if I can get it all done in one application then that's even better. The *ONE* thing I will dearly, dearly miss would be the EXS24 mkII.

Thanks for reading. I'm still tapping my foot and scratching my head every 10 minutes and it's driving me nuts.

[soundsurfr]

IMO, $5000 is a ridiculous amount of money to spend to switch platforms, especially since switching platforms will ultimately buy you nothing. For that money, you could set up a Pro-Tools rig that would make any musician drool. Killer PC, twin flat-panel LCD screens, a pair of Genelecs and a host of plug-ins. What more can you ask for in a DAW?

There will probably be things I'm used to in Logic that won't appear in Pro Tools and I'll painfully work around them the first few months, but in the end what it comes down to is having a system that works.

This is right on, I think. And your sound quality may improve also. The trick is getting proficient on the new software platform. Once you're comfortable with it - you can do anything.

Best of luck in whatever you choose.

[Bastiaan]

A guy a i know who is quite big in the dutch technohouse scene uses Nuendo and Ableton Live and sometimes Reason. All on a PC, as he likes the pc-platform more...

All he does is sequencing...he is not really a good keyboardplayer

[dfusion]

IMO, $5000 is a ridiculous amount of money to spend to switch platforms, especially since switching platforms will ultimately buy you nothing.

Yes, I know. Sad, isn't it? $2,400 for a middle of the line G5, extra ram, upgrading Logic, various new apps to replace Sound Forge, CD Architect, Nero, etc. and a new sound card since my PCI won't work in a G5. And that's just getting started.

All of that just to move to the left. Ok, maybe slightly forward in terms of performance, but it's probably performance I won't see (for now) as my P4/2.4 hasn't choked on me once. The real question is whether Pro Tools *can* backfill my requirements. I really don't think 32 tracks will be a problem as my style of music isn't demanding. I'm usually around 18 tracks at the most. My music is 4/4 time signature and varies anywhere from 90 BPM to 130 BPM. I never get into tempo changes, triplets, and I don't use notation. House and Trance are very 4 on the floor and since I am not a pro, I work in 4, 8, 16 bar phrases or loops, cut ant paste, and layer from there. It's really not that complex which is why I'm looking at Digi now.

[3JDamon]

If you're really accustomed to Logic Audio, then stay with it. It's quite unorthodox and difficult to switch to or from. It's also much better on a Mac, and I think you'll be happy in the long run. And the G5's are the cream of the crop in design, silent operation, deadly speed, and Logic Audio is the one audio editor that makes full use of the G4 and G5 architacture, and will continue to be updated regularily now that Apple runs the show. If you're seriously considering changing programs, do not switch to Mac. Logic is better suited to electronic music than Protools anyway, it's just written in Greek!

[nikki-k]

Hi!
I started with Win OS back in '91.
I had brushes with Mac OS and others over the years, but my primary system has always been Win OS based since.

I got a Mac for my HD TDM system originally. I did not want to learn a new OS, Mac didnt do what I wanted it to do, and comparing to Win OS was a day-to-day thing for me.

While I suggest Mac to anyone asking me as a first choice for a non-gaming computer, that comes with an exception: Those who know and love Windows, try someone else's Mac first. Or get a cheaper second hand one first. With Panther, they are getting closer and closer to resembling one another (XP and Panther). But I dont care for the Mac proprietary hardware thing, I dont care for their "upgrade" "Uudate" polocies with software or hardware, and even Panther comes up short in a few areas- for me.

Mac has more plugs available. But will you be able to afford buying enough of them to justify a switch? If you are comfy on both OS's, then it gets even harder still.

Good luck with your decision!

[dfusion]

It all comes down to one thing Is the midi in Pro Tools good enough to replace the midi in Logic? Going from PC -> Mac (Logic) with a comparable system looks like this


Current Setup:

1) Dell Dimension 4600, 2GB Ram, 30GB HD, 120GB HD, Nvidia Quadro Dual DVI AGP Card
2) Two Dell Dimension 20" Ultrasharp Flat Panels
3) Echo Mia
4) Logic Platinum 5.5, Sound Forge, CD Architect, Nero

On the "high end" adding a Digi002 is $2,199 plus a $50 firewire card and of course some plugins so let's round off to $3,000 for 002 with everything.


Comparable Mac Setup:

1) Apple G5 1.8Ghz Single CPU - $2,100
2) Additional 1.5GB Ram - $420 ($140 x 3)
3) Apple Cinema Display - 20" = $1,300; 23" = $2,000; or ADC/DVI converter to use my Dells $150
4) Logic Upgrade to 6.0 - $399 (I think)
5) Mackie Control Universal - $999
6) M-Audio Firewire 410 - $399 (Echo Mia PCI won't work in G5)
7) Bias Peak $400, Roxio Toast $85

Approximately $5,000 for the above system with NO Apple Cinema displays. I would be using my Dell monitors and a DVI/ADC converter.


Now you guys can understand why I want to be 1000% sure that whatever decision I make, it's the right one. I know only I can do this, but once I do it there is no going back. I don't have that much extra cash. This is a serious, serious, serrrrrious decision I have to make.

[da BaSsTaRd!]

whenever i get stuck in a rut i start drinking. then i start using cubase... when i sober up i go back to PT.

stick with the PC. get a 002R or a used 001. then buy cubase SX and the mackie control. that way you have all the tools from logic and PT in the same box. total cost is under $3k - less if you get the 001. its about the same as your PC budget, but you get more tools...

check with steinberg.net to see if the mackie is supported in SX2.

one other thing. an added benefit is that you can keep your current plugins (i'm assuming the plugs you used in logic are vst) and there's a vst/rtas wrapper out now at www.fxpansion.com so you can use alll your vst plugs with PT. perfecto...

[where02190]

Let me start this off by declaring I am a MAC guy, but have worked on Protools on the PC platofrm quite a bit as well.

The G-5 is not getting impressive enough specs for me to consider making an upgrade. Minor increase in performance, but that's really it. Perhaps in another year they can imporve on the efficiency, but for the cost, IMHO it is not worth it compared to what you can get a kick ass G-4 dual processor for.

However it comes down to what you are most comfortable with. Your skills are PC based, do you really want to learn antoehr platform? Learning is always good, but you can do what you want to do on the platform and OS you already know.

I would recommend upgrading your existing setup, rather than making a big jumpt to a new world, unless you hafve the desire to vastly uincrease your knowledge. It's not a difficult platform (OXS) to learn at all, and there are some advantages (Pluging availability) but either can do amazing things.

This, coming from a Mac guy.

[Arya44]

The fact is that we can never think this step of your purchase is going to last more than 2 to 3 years if you may be looking for making the coolest of the electronic music in the market, unless you are not following the templates and creating things from scratch. Nobody knows what will be the restrictions of software / hardware / OS compatibilities in future and open doors of capabilities.

You may want to spend more money to have a consistant software / hardware / OS setup and stick to it if it works for you, and never be tempted by the new features and capabilities of the upgraded stuff, which consequently brings incompatibility issues. So, depending on your strategy, move forward. I think you should either bring the budget low enough or value your Logic skills to get rid of your hesitation. I would stick to my skills.

You learn certain things for OS and that's it. You don't have to spend time to learn OS stuff in a daily basis. If you end up buying Mac, it shouldn't be because of glory of G5, but to stick to your skills with Logic. If 1.25 GHZ works for you, you may buy a G4 which is cheaper (I think around 1700USD). I guess you may still use your PC to process stuff with your Windows based applications and send them out to your Mac as a prefinished track.

Honestly, I like Logic very much and if it was not because of potential studio recording / home editing business aspect of it (since most of studios have ProTools), I would stick to Logic. If you have a stand-alone music making business, that wouldn't be your concern anyway.

Hope it helps,

Arya