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  #1  
Old 01-01-2023, 06:25 AM
QuacksMeUp QuacksMeUp is offline
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Default Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Merry New Year!

Just got Carbon (coming from Apogee TB Ensemble).

So the monitor level can't be controlled from the iMac keyboard with the volume keys???


Will this be possible soon - or must I resort to a monitor controller?

Recommendations? I've read that some (like the Mackie Big Knob) color the sound.
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2023, 04:04 PM
dominicperry dominicperry is online now
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

You are correct, monitor level cannot be controlled from anywhere other than the control on the front of the Carbon.
There was some talk about monitor level being software controllable, but it hasn't happened yet. Pre-amps, yes, that was a firmware update, but not output levels yet.

Anything you stick between the Carbon outputs and your monitoring chain is likely to degrade the signal unless you spend a lot of money. Is there a reason you can't use the front panel physical control?
The alternative is to take a digital out from the Carbon (ADAT or SPDIF) and put an external DAC/monitor controller on that - I do this, using an RME ADI-2 Pro fs, but only because I already owned the RME and I like the sound of it.

Dominic
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2023, 06:53 PM
QuacksMeUp QuacksMeUp is offline
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Thanks for the insight, Dominic - especially regarding taking ADAT from Carbon. I will definitely try that.

The Carbon is rack-mounted and it would be impracticable to constantly be reaching over for the front panel volume knob as often as I need to. I checked the RME... yea, at nearly $1k, a bit more serious than I was thinking. (I was looking at the TC Electronic Level Pilot X Desktop Speaker Volume Controller with XLR - $69. )

But, tonight while setting up an alternate workflow for the short term (until I get Carbon under my belt), it suddenly dawned on me that I'm in a similar situation as you were.

I have an Audient iD14 that I can feed monitor output into. And guess what? It has a big beautiful monitor control knob. I've got Beatles running thru it now from the iMac - and it sounds good. By George, I think this solves it!

Would you think that feeding it ADAT from Carbon is preferable to using the line outs?
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2023, 06:46 AM
dominicperry dominicperry is online now
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuacksMeUp View Post
Thanks for the insight, Dominic - especially regarding taking ADAT from Carbon. I will definitely try that.

The Carbon is rack-mounted and it would be impracticable to constantly be reaching over for the front panel volume knob as often as I need to. I checked the RME... yea, at nearly $1k, a bit more serious than I was thinking. (I was looking at the TC Electronic Level Pilot X Desktop Speaker Volume Controller with XLR - $69. )

But, tonight while setting up an alternate workflow for the short term (until I get Carbon under my belt), it suddenly dawned on me that I'm in a similar situation as you were.

I have an Audient iD14 that I can feed monitor output into. And guess what? It has a big beautiful monitor control knob. I've got Beatles running thru it now from the iMac - and it sounds good. By George, I think this solves it!

Would you think that feeding it ADAT from Carbon is preferable to using the line outs?
Routing the Audient ADAT/SPDIF ins to the main outputs - that's theoretically possible. You could have it connected to the computer at the same time as the Carbon and just ensure that system and application audio isn't routed through it.
You would also need to be sure that both the Carbon was set to S/PDIF out and the iD14 to S/PDIF in. It's a bit of a faff, but I do have a Carbon and an RME Babyface connected to my computer at the same time, so it's doable if you have enough ports.
It would be better to use the optical in of the Audient, rather than the analogue in - whichever way you do it you will be using the Audient ADC to monitor, but going digital from Carbon directly to iD14 will avoid an unnecessary round of ADC - DAC - ADC

Dominic
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Last edited by dominicperry; 01-02-2023 at 07:35 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2023, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Glad you found a solution. Other options include using a tablet with the Avid Control app or a dedicated monitor controller. The Audient Nero has a lot to offer, gets great reviews and can be had for a very fair price ($333) from thomann music(cheaper than USA pricing even after adding the shipping). If you go that route, you might as well buy a Harley Benton guitar or bass for the studio(shipping charges get easier to swallow if you get more stuff)
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2023, 09:46 AM
Megalobass Megalobass is offline
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Hi,

I was lucky enough to have a Carbon on test in my studio for a few weeks.
Indeed the lack of control of the outputs via the Apple keyboard or via Eucon is quite annoying.
On my side I did some tests with several monitoring controllers and I had excellent results with the SPL MTC Mk2 and the SPL MC16.
The SPLs improve things quite a bit and correct the main default of the Carbon, which is the high impedance of the outputs.
The stereo image and low frequency are definitely better with the SPL between the Carbon and the monitors.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2023, 10:38 AM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

I wish they just released a tabletop module connected to the AVB port to control, Volume,mute,mono and add a talkback mic for good measure (because the built in one is pretty much useless)
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2023, 11:24 AM
QuacksMeUp QuacksMeUp is offline
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

DOMINIC:
Quote:
avoid an unnecessary round of ADC - DAC - ADC
Oh gosh.. I get totally lost in the whole routing thing. But taking SPDIF out from Carbon to SPDIF in on iD14 seems simpler than routing thru ADAT channels 3/4. I was just about to just the analog outs from Carbon into the Line Ins on the iD14 (just found some 1/4TRS-to-XLR cables laying around). However, you make an excellent point about double-DACing! Aborting that approach!

Geez - the whole reason I bought Carbon is because of its integration with Pro Tools... thought I'd be ridding myself of the intermediate software layer that I had to occasionally deal with when using the Apogee Thunderbolt Ensemble. So far, I'm not seeing a lot of upside to leaving the setup I had.

Also was looking forward to the DSP advantage - but failed to realize I would need DSP plug-ins ($$$) to take advantage of that. My toolbox is all native plugs.

DIGIOT: I'm with you. When I got the Avid S1, my first disappointment was realizing there was no built-in transport controls. Yes, soft keys took care of that, but still...

MEGALOBASS: I'll check out the SPL. Thanks for the tip.

ALBEE1952: LOL! Buy more stuff - save on shipping. Sounds like my wife's justification for shopping at Kohl's. "Look honey! I SAVED $800." I did look at the Nero, but couldn't swallow the $500+ price tag. I'll have to check out Thomann. Don't know much about the Harley Benton gear. I'm just trying to find some TIME to play the 1959-modded Strat and Mustang bass - hanging on the wall for 3 months now. (sigh)
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2023, 12:33 PM
dominicperry dominicperry is online now
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuacksMeUp View Post
DOMINIC: Oh gosh.. I get totally lost in the whole routing thing. But taking SPDIF out from Carbon to SPDIF in on iD14 seems simpler than routing thru ADAT channels 3/4. I was just about to just the analog outs from Carbon into the Line Ins on the iD14 (just found some 1/4TRS-to-XLR cables laying around). However, you make an excellent point about double-DACing! Aborting that approach!

Geez - the whole reason I bought Carbon is because of its integration with Pro Tools... thought I'd be ridding myself of the intermediate software layer that I had to occasionally deal with when using the Apogee Thunderbolt Ensemble. So far, I'm not seeing a lot of upside to leaving the setup I had.
Well, the routing in the Audient from Analog in to Analog out won't be much different from SPDIF in to Analog out (or ADAT in to Analog out). Set it up once, don't touch it again!

Quote:
Also was looking forward to the DSP advantage - but failed to realize I would need DSP plug-ins ($$$) to take advantage of that. My toolbox is all native plugs.
I don't know what plus you have but quite a few are both AAX and AAX-DSP. It's also pretty important to realise that you are just sticking plugs in DSP mode to do tracking. All your mixing plugs are going to sit in Native mode in the hybrid engine and will use your computer CPU - it's only the plugs for tracking which are intended for DSP on the Carbon (to get low latency, regardless of how much stress your computer is under). As such, you only really need a nice EQ and comp and perhaps delay.

Dominic
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2023, 01:05 PM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: Controlling monitor level from keyboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicperry View Post
Well, the routing in the Audient from Analog in to Analog out won't be much different from SPDIF in to Analog out (or ADAT in to Analog out). Set it up once, don't touch it again!


I don't know what plus you have but quite a few are both AAX and AAX-DSP. It's also pretty important to realise that you are just sticking plugs in DSP mode to do tracking. All your mixing plugs are going to sit in Native mode in the hybrid engine and will use your computer CPU - it's only the plugs for tracking which are intended for DSP on the Carbon (to get low latency, regardless of how much stress your computer is under). As such, you only really need a nice EQ and comp and perhaps delay.

Dominic
Don't forget Guitar and Bass amp Plug-ins! I think Avid did a pretty good job by adding DSP Plug-ins to the Carbon software bundle to cover most of those needs (MCDSP,PluginAlliance)
And as far as only mixing in native, I do a lot of overdubs and punch-ins after starting mixes so you still need DSP-Plugins. Something to think about when starting to use plug-ins to mix.
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