Major Flaw with Pro Tools Original Time Stamp value & Media Composer

[Avo.Mardikian]

Hello experts –

I have been marinating on this one for a while. Exchanged many emails with Avid support with no conclusion. I wanted to post to the community to see what kind of feedback we can generate.

The issue is a discrepancy between what you see in a Pro Tools clip’s Original Time Stamp view in the Edit Window vs. what you see in the Workspace's Original Time Stamp column. And my hypothesis is what is displayed in the PT Workspace is what is being displayed in Avid Media Composer. So unless you check your media's Original Time Stamp in the Workspace, there is a chance you are sending off files to the client with the “wrong” metadata which is embarrassing. Admittedly, one weakness of this test is that I do not have a MC system to confirm but have asked clients to check and confirm. Also, at times, you can re-import the audio back into Pro Tools, and it will show the same Original Time Stamp value as what is displayed in the Workspace. However, most of the time, it does not. The steps outlined below is one way to reproduce the discrepancy:

1. Create a new 48kHz session on your desktop (bit rate does not matter)
2. In the Session Setup window, change the timecode rate to 29.97DF and Session Start time 00:55:00;02
3. Create one mono audio track (mono or stereo does not matter)
4. Go to 00:57:30;00 and make a selection with about 10 seconds duration (length of duration does not matter)
5. Consolidate selection to create an audio file
6. Open the Workspace window and navigate to the Audio Files directory of your current session and view the Original Time Stamp and User Time Stamp parameters
7. Compare those values with the Original Time Stamp value on your actual clip in the Edit Window (View > Clip > Original Time Stamp).

If you followed the steps in order, the Original Time Stamp view on the clip in the Edit Window does NOT match the Original Time Stamp in the Workspace. Now, repeat the same steps above with the Session Start Time at 00:54:29;28. Now, the Original Time Stamp metadata in the Workspace should match the Original Time Stamp shown on the clip in the Edit Window.

Based on my testing, here are some more interesting bits of information:

• The 29.97DF timecode rate in the Session Setup menu was the last session format before Pro Tools app was quit and re-launched, just in case it has anything to do with the Workspace database file (informed by Avid support).

• This test is NOT reproducible with 44.1kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz sample rates, only in 48kHz.

• The timecode values are off when the clip’s start time timecode is in the 0057xxxx block. When you start your clip at a different position, say 00583000, the Original Time Stamp matches in both Edit Window clip view and Workspace.

After reading through the DUC, I see messages here and there of people having similar issue. My question to the post world of audio experts is: have you encountered this bug and had to re-stamp your media??? Thanks for taking the time to read.


- Avo



So far....

Confirmed on all Pro Tools Ultimate versions in 2019 & 2020, HDX and Non-HDX.

Confirmed on versions of Mac OS:
10.12.6
10.13.6
10.14.6
10.15.7

Confirmed on Mac computers:
Trashcan, cheesegrator, new cheesgrator, mac mini old and new, various Macbook Pro models.

[feel free to post your results for PC]

[Eric Seaberg]

Thanks for this, Avo (and I replied to you in the original thread I started a few years ago).

I will post any further issues I find, but it sounds like you've discovered it magically and, hopefully, Tech Support will follow up.

BTW, I did find a new metadata editor other than WaveAgent. See what you think...

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bwf-me...ign-mpt=uo%3D4

[jusmat00]

Hopping on this thread chain. Been dealing with this for about a year. Have always done the workarounds you've mentioned just to get files out. Would love to see a real solution!

[msw]

I've definitely experienced this, but haven't taken the time as you have to sort out more specifics. Would love to see this fixed, but have just resorted to putting the start time in the file name.

FWIW: My sessions always start at 00:00:00:00, and for the past year when I am aware of this happening have always been 24fps. (48kHz).