Let me get this straight..

[voce]

Not only can I not put RTAS plugs on AUX tracks in HD, I can't put RTAS plugs on the Master Fader???

Is this true?

If so, how do I get around this to use plugs that have no TDM version (such as Vintage Warmer - and besides using them on every track)? I can understand (at least the logic behind, if not agree with) whoever not wanting you to just buy, say, the RTAS version of the L3 (versus the TDM version) for $700 less, but c'mon! It's not like my computer is incapable of running as many plugs as an old MIX system on it's own, if not crippled by the TDM software!

Is there a workaround to this? Please no sarcasm - I use certain plugins a great deal and need to know.

Thanks in advance.

[Seeee]

hey Voce, you sounds like me after i converted from LE. try an HTDM plug in, IF they make the equivelent. ya know, we have no easy answer for ya, it kinda sucks but rocks at the same time. i adjusted just fine but did need to invest in some new plug ins. that whole "no rtas on aux and masters" sucks.

[voce]

Well, that's 2 major issues I have discovered thus far with HD. No live/realtime/seamless instantiation of plugins during playback, and no RTAS plugins (there's only one I want to use, but there is nothing in TDM land close to it) on the Master.

Call me a whiner, but both issues suck SERIOUS arse and are completely inexcusable. They had better be fixed in 7.0.

[uno1234]

It's not a bug. it's just the way it is. It takes too much power to go from disk to tdm back to cpu before going out of the I/O.

[crizdee]

Well, that's 2 major issues I have discovered thus far with HD. No live/realtime/seamless instantiation of plugins during playback, and no RTAS plugins (there's only one I want to use, but there is nothing in TDM land close to it) on the Master.

Call me a whiner, but both issues suck SERIOUS arse and are completely inexcusable. They had better be fixed in 7.0.

Get over it! your now on TDM!! it has HUGE advantages over LE with only RTAS plugs. no one is expecting you to understand time-division multiplexing and how it works and why it works the way it does! do you seriosly think Digidesign are purposely limiting the use of RTAS plugs!? of course not!! there are certain current limitations to RTAS plugs running on TDM! so except you are now using a TDM system and not a native system.

Chris

[Tubz]

Yes it's different math. Get better plugins or sell your system or whatever if you don't like it. You might want to try the phoenix (cranesong).

BR Tubz

[Jay Levin]

You act as though the plug-ins came first, and then "stupid Pro Tools" came around and didn't support them properly. The opposite is the case.

TDM was conceived as a DSP system running not on your computer (like a native system) but on the "TDM computer" -- i.e., your core and process cards. That box-within-the-box handled every single bit of real-time audio processing.

RTAS was an add-on to this system, enabling the TDM computer to route signal out to the "outer box" for processing and then back into the TDM environment. Essentially, RTAS is an exception to the basic TDM premise, made in response to user demand to utilize the host computer's CPU.

Any routing to the native environment has to be tightly controlled or else the TDM environment falls apart. HTDM is yet another add-on that provides a second method of routing audio to the native system -- again, created in response to demand for native CPU utilization on busses and masters. AltiVerb, for example, simply could not run as a pure TDM plug-in, but it does just fine as HTDM.

For processors commonly used on busses and masters -- reverbs, mastering limiters, etc. -- if a plug-in doesn't support either HTDM or TDM, then as a practical business matter, that plug-in's publisher is simply not serious about the TDM platform. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact.

JSL

[voce]

You make some excellent points.

However, I would submit that is as much the responsibility of Digi to make RTAS plugs work in TDM as it is of the Plugin manufacturers to try to code for HTDM. Moreso, in fact. The fact is that host systems are becoming very, very powerful. What could only be done on a maxed out MIX system 3-4 years ago can now be done, or close to it, on the high end host systems, (Mac of Windows). Of course, Digi doesn't really want to allow users to explore this much, and that's their right, as it threatens their sales/retention/marketshare. However, when someone makes the leap to HD AND has a powerful host computer they should not have to take ANY steps backward. Say all you like about how great HD is. I have it now, I know it's true. But I don't really care about "the math" one single bit. Just fix it, and fix it now. No way in heck should I have to be forced to give up ANY functionality I once had in LE in when using HD. Digi has smart folks, I am sure they could code a way around this stuff, that allows full usage of the host system (or even full usage of OSX and mutiple processeors - but don't get me started on that), if they figured they were losing enough money. They can restrict this "true full functionality" to HD users only - that's fine. But again, no way I could have to LOSE functionality after "upgrading". Not even a little bit. No.

[Tubz]

Voce, you havn't understood the true beauty and the power of a HD accel-system. If you are at home, using this system for tracking a couple of tracks at the time, and then mix your songs at home. 30-40 tracks at once in a mix? 50 maybe? I would say you we're better of with a 002 and a super converter! Because if you havn't heard the difference yet... Maybe time for some new monitors... Or preamps? How about a really tight acoustic treated controlroom?
When that's said I have to admit I was feeling abit like you when I upgraded... But see it like this: You can buy a really good mic for a couple of 100 dollars. And make perfect music with it... Then if you wan't something a bit better, you might pay 5000 dollars to really improve! It's the same with DAW's. Small differences and slight improvements and better stability. But it costs. Either you're in it to make the BEST [bleep], and now you have it! Or else, go back to your old system and use your money on whatever turns you on! Good luck!

T

[RobMacki]

*********edited**********
Some thing I said that I should have kept to myself that is quoted later that makes me look like a provocative jerk.

I'm really a nice easy-going guy.

Really.