Gassing for new control surface

[propower]

Hey all,

I've been wanting a new control surface but I just can't seem to find one that will do what I want (for the space I have and the price I can live with). My studio is more project based and so a smaller footprint 8 fader surface is what will work best......

Desires:
8 faders
Great (hopefully flexible) layout for controlling plugins --talking knobs and switches in a logical easy to map configuration
Transport and Locating abilities (think jog/shuttle)
Meters
As many scribble strips as possible
Excellent PT integration
Ideally want to be able to turn LCD monitor off to mix and adjust plugs

The ones I know of......
HUI: had it for 12+ years. mostly there but the plugin editing and mapping is cumbersome to reach and inflexible in layout
MotoMix: Had it for 12+ years: same comments
MAckie MCU: same
Euphonix artist: Either I get faders with minimal other controls (MC mix) or I get faders with no scribble strips and a touch screen with again a nonitnuitive layout of buttons and knobs. Also PT integration is limited by HUI protocol. Also have seen many posting issues with these and PT.
Tango: Very interesting, a bit large, a bit pricey, but the layout of controls for plugins is once again weak, as with all non-digi stuff limited to HUI protocol
Command 8, no locate (scrub, shuttle) controls, and plug in controls are still pretty weak, can't just take my eyes off it and control by feel and listening. (not very aesthetically attractive)
Novation remote zero: Surprisingly good for knobs and switches. Faders are a joke (but do work in a primitive sense). Automap software is pretty nice and allows one to map plugins. I got a used one for $150 and if they would make a quality feeling box with motorized faders -- watch out!
D-Command: now we are talking but a little big for my needs as well as being ~4X what I would like to keep the budget to.
C24: Way to big for my need. Also there are many features I don't need since I am all set with plenty of inputs, pres and monitoring system.

So: any one else gone through a similar search and have either another choice or an insight on things I have already mentioned?

Thanks,
-Lee

[formfunction]

Sounds like you need an old Control 24. You can get one pretty cheaply... and just about everyone i know who has one does not use the pre's or the monitor section.. or the line mixer. but as a big ol automation writer, plugin mapper, scrubber it is pretty good. ff

[TimNielsen]

I feel your pain, I really truly do. I've been searching for YEARS. At the moment, I've decided the only approach that works for me is to use multiple pieces of gear. No single device does what you want, that I know of. I had a Digidesign Command 8. Overall, I liked that it 'worked' well with PT. But one stupid flaw from Digi made me sell it. You can't change automation modes from the device! I mean, honestly, what were they THINKING. If I'm 'mixing' I want access to the mixing parts of PT, and changing automation modes is central to mixing. Ug, I'm ranting...

So, at the moment, I have three devices in front of me, a Mackie Baby HUI, a Novation Remote Zero SL, and an Akai MPK49 keyboard.

The Baby Hui is great for touch sensitive moving faders, transport controls, automation changing. If you really have to have meters, get a HUI. Kinda bulky, but can be found cheap.

As for plugins, nothing beats the Novation and Automap software. Was a bit rocky to start, but finally it's up to date and works great. You get 8 sliders, 16 knobs, 16 buttons, all can be configured to control any plugin parameter. The software then is plugin aware, so when you call up EQ3, it calls up you 'map' for it, so the same knob always does the same thing. I refuse to use plugins without it anymore.

And the MPK is a great general MIDI keyboard, with 12 drum pads, 49 keys, 8 knobs and 8 sliders in 3 banks (so 24 of each really) and works great with things like Structure and Kontakt.

I think your best bet would be a Mackie Control Universal and something like the Novation.

Or as others have noted, an old ProControl, but I would worry about such old technology, where to even get it fixed when it breaks, etc... But they sure were nice, dual joysticks, etc.

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by TimNielsen

As for plugins, nothing beats the Novation and Automap software. Was a bit rocky to start, but finally it's up to date and works great. You get 8 sliders, 16 knobs, 16 buttons, all can be configured to control any plugin parameter. The software then is plugin aware, so when you call up EQ3, it calls up you 'map' for it, so the same knob always does the same thing. I refuse to use plugins without it anymore.

t it fixed when it breaks, etc... But they sure were nice, dual joysticks, etc.

Hey Tim, is Novation really working with Protools? I always heard bad things about it on PT. Are you on PT 8? HD?
I'm using 2 Euphonix Mc Mix and they are great for automation but for plugins not so good. Maybe I could add the Novation? Is it HUI?

[edemunari]

The only really solution i got for my problem that is exactly the same as yours is to get an used Procontrol. It does the job for a right price... i'm not a superstellar studio owner but Digi is forcing to make all of us upgrade to to D-Command that is really too much pricey for my budget. So for people needing only 8 fader ad a decent editing console, ... Command 8 that i owned really doesn't get the point, seems an hard way to get something right.

[tehguitarist]

I too am in the same boat.


C8 is too basic/low end

c24, you're paying alot of unnecessary money for pres and converters... that frankly... you aren't going to use.

D-command/control. Lets go buy a new car or maybe a small apartment!!!

Why no replacement for the pro control?

[Marsdy]

+1

Would love to see something fill the (giant) hole between the C8 and C24.

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by tehguitarist

I too am in the same boat.


C8 is too basic/low end

c24, you're paying alot of unnecessary money for pres and converters... that frankly... you aren't going to use.

D-command/control. Lets go buy a new car or maybe a small apartment!!!

Why no replacement for the pro control?

Pro controls cost 12000 new. The d command is the replacement for the pro control.
BTW, I still like the pro control for a lot of reasons. It they did update it with touch sensitive knobs and plug in mapping support and new buttons for all the new automation in PT8. I'd be really happy. As long as they keep the digifaders and ditch the d command faders!

Best,
Brandon

[macaholic]

I am considering the Smart AV Tango for my home studio, because at work I have an ICON and use custom faders all the time.

What makes the Tango unique is that even though Pro Tools see it as only a HUI, the Tango has onboard DSP that handles a lot more stuff on board that is DAW independent.

A couple of these are Channel "HOLD" (the big H button at the bottom of every fader, that lets you "lock" that fader in place regardless of what Pro Tools is doing. The ability to store in the Tango memory "ergonomic groups" which is essentially "Custom Fader" layouts in ICON speak, where you can rearrange the faders in any order (again regardless of what PT is doing). Again, these are based on the software within the Tango. Customizable edit maps, and an on screen QWERTY keyboard that is application aware so you don't necessarily need a keyboard sitting in front of you, if you are editing or mixing, it hides itself, and then if you come across something like track renaming or something, its there, but then you can press a button to hide it again... pretty ingenious if you ask me. The ability to program your own macros... well you see where I'm going with this.

I've emailed back and forth with them a couple times and they are usually less than 12 hours in getting back to me, which is saying a lot because they are based out of New Zealand or Australia I believe.

Anyway, not trying to sway you one way or the other, just trying to say, just because it's HUI, doesn't necessarily mean it's limited.

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by formfunction

Sounds like you need an old Control 24. You can get one pretty cheaply... and just about everyone i know who has one does not use the pre's or the monitor section.. or the line mixer. but as a big ol automation writer, plugin mapper, scrubber it is pretty good. ff

For the price of a used control 24, you can probably find a used pro control. The pro control is a much better controller, and can be expanded with the edit pack or more fader packs.

Both are discontinued, which means they may be dropped at any time, but the pro control would seem less likely to be dropped since it was so much more expensive when new. either way, the pro control is a much better investment IMO.