Is this possible with Eleven Rack? Recording technique help required...

[rmpacheco]

Hi guys,

I want to record a guitar signal through the 11R that will be going through a pedal board in front of the 11R (for my overdrive pedals), but I also want to record a completely dry signal (that doesn't include my pedals) simultaneously so that I can take what I played and later re-amp it using effects on the 11R only.

Is that possible? I do have an A/B/Y switch but still haven't figured out how I'd do what I want to do. I was thinking at first that I'd be able to make use of the line level input but I don't think my guitar or pedalboard count as line level devices. I also considered putting the pedalboard signal through the FX loop and placing the loop at the beginning of my signal path (not sure if that's possible anyway but I think it is) but then I lose the True-Z adjustments, don't I?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

[madgt621]

Originally Posted by rmpacheco

Hi guys,

I want to record a guitar signal through the 11R that will be going through a pedal board in front of the 11R (for my overdrive pedals), but I also want to record a completely dry signal (that doesn't include my pedals) simultaneously so that I can take what I played and later re-amp it using effects on the 11R only.

Is that possible? I do have an A/B/Y switch but still haven't figured out how I'd do what I want to do. I was thinking at first that I'd be able to make use of the line level input but I don't think my guitar or pedalboard count as line level devices. I also considered putting the pedalboard signal through the FX loop and placing the loop at the beginning of my signal path (not sure if that's possible anyway but I think it is) but then I lose the True-Z adjustments, don't I?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

Guitar -> True Z -> FX Loop Out (send) -> Pedalboard -> FX Loop In (return) -> everything else

In PT, set dry track to record "Guitar In". Also make sure the fx loop is set to guitar level signal, and that the FX loop is before everything.

I'm a little tired right now, but that totally sounds like it will work.

[rmpacheco]

Well, that's what I was describing as putting the pedal board in the FX loop, but if I understand correctly, that means the True-Z will not react to which pedals are put in front, as it would if the pedal board went directly into the Guitar Input. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Thanks nonetheless for your response...hopefully we're on the right track. :)

[madgt621]

well from what i know, (or at least what i THINK i know lol) the True-Z is meant to make it feel like you're playing into a real amp/pedal setup when you're going direct, as well as shape the signal tonally. That's why the True-Z on "Auto" setting sets to the first pedal your guitar "meets" in the chain.

So if you want the True-Z on a completely dry track, you would have to plug the guitar directly into the True-Z, and record that.

As for the True-Z seeing the pedals, i don't know if that matters or not. The True-Z mimics the impedance of the pedals itself right. So if you plan to reamp without the actual pedals, wouldn't you want it to be exactly as you would be doing it without the pedals? (i.e. guitar direct into 11R)

Of course, the pedals will still affect the signal as they would a regular guitar signal. It's just that the True-Z will affect the signal before the pedals, as opposed to after, as it would if you placed the pedals before the input.

The difference between this setup and a normal amp, is that usually the FX loop is placed after the preamp. in this set up you can move the fx loop around. So instead of plugging direct into an interface, sending out to outboard gear, and feeling like you're doing as such, you plug direct into the True-Z, and feel that you are plugging into real pedals/amps.

Haha, sorry if that doesn't make sense. I wrote and i don't completely understand it. I'm hoping Townsend or Chimp chime in and tell me i was way off the mark. I wanna learn too!

[rmpacheco]

That seems to make sense, at least on some level, and I do appreciate how detailed and clear your response is. :)

One thing I guess I wanted to be able to do is to re-amp with my pedalboard in the chain as well as an option, so putting it in the FX loop does seem the most straightforward way to do this, but getting a better understanding of whether or not my pedals will sound different at the front of the chain via the FX loop vs. via the guitar input will help me as well. Like you, I think some confirmation from The Chimp or Townsend would be nice and most helpful. Thanks so much for your help so far!

[Julia B]

Radial JDI in front of everything to split off a clean signal which you run into one of the line inputs to a separate channel. Bone clean right off your guitar. Then you can reamp with any configuration you want.

[rmpacheco]

Hmm, i considered a line input (per my OP) since I have an A/B/Y switch I can use up front but I thought sending a guitar signal through the line input would be bad...being that it's not a line level device. Am I wrong?

[nst7]

If you used the JDI to split the signal, the 2nd output is still bringing it up only to mic level, not line level.

No matter how you do it, you'll need some kind of mic preamp to go into the line level inputs. And this mic preamp should be very transparent, with no color.

[Sean Halley]

Better to use and print the Guitar Input (it IS a DI - it's a DI with Benefits and run the pedals in the loop. Since your pedals are in the real world and interact with each other electrically (it obviously matters which one is where in the signal chain), you'll get their normal behavior running it this way.

The main thing that affects the feel and response of the whole rig is the impedance the guitar is plugged directly into. So, if you plug into the Guitar Input, not only do you get the ability to 100% reproduce your sound when re-amping (because the Guitar Input is calibrated), but you get the ability to use different impedances via True Z and save them in your patches. Too bright on Auto? Dial True Z down to 32K

Hope that helps -

S..

[cessnapilot]

This might sound crazy or overly basic but I kinda got the feeling from what the OP was saying that a salient point might have been missed....

You aren't stuck to whatever default position the 11R gives you as to where the FX loop might be in the signal chain. You can move it to right after the Guitar Input then structure the patch however you want. This is what I did for my old Digitech RP-350. It has the whammy pedal and other effects so I play around where the FX loop is.

Like madgt was saying "Guitar -> True Z -> FX Loop Out (send) -> Pedalboard -> FX Loop In (return) -> everything else" this is what he means. Can't see a need for any other gear (ABY switches, line level boxes, etc.).