Eleven Rack -> MIDIMate Question.

[Vercingetorix]

Hello All,

Now for the last week I have been looking into MIDI floorboards to use to control the 11R.

Most were too expensive like the Ground Control Pro at around $1,300 (here in Australia) and others thereabouts - they are all far too expensive, more the the 11R cost new. But I came across a cheaper option the Rocktrom MIDImate (as used by Sean Halley) @ $450 AU plus expression pedal $150, its considerably cheaper. But I need a couple of questions answered.

The blurb for the MIDImate said thusly:

"The MIDI Mate also features a 7-pin MIDI connector, allowing 'phantom power' to be used with a 7-pin MIDI cable"

Now is it possible to run the MIDImate with this 'Phantom Power' on the 11R using a 7 pin configuration? I am a complete MIDIot and have no idea . And if I can't use this 'phantom power' how exactly would I run the unit? That is, what sort of cable would I need to connect it to the 11R?

[Jerry S]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Hello All,

Now for the last week I have been looking into MIDI floorboards to use to control the 11R.

Most were too expensive like the Ground Control Pro at around $1,300 (here in Australia) and others thereabouts - they are all far too expensive, more the the 11R cost new. But I came across a cheaper option the Rocktrom MIDImate (as used by Sean Halley) @ $450 AU plus expression pedal $150, its considerably cheaper. But I need a couple of questions answered.

The blurb for the MIDImate said thusly:

"The MIDI Mate also features a 7-pin MIDI connector, allowing 'phantom power' to be used with a 7-pin MIDI cable"

Now is it possible to run the MIDImate with this 'Phantom Power' on the 11R using a 7 pin configuration? I am a complete MIDIot and have no idea . And if I can't use this 'phantom power' how exactly would I run the unit? That is, what sort of cable would I need to connect it to the 11R?

Hi, I don't know the answer to your question but in regards to the GC Pro, have you looked on Ebay? Is the price still way up there is you go that route?

I only ask because your experience controlling the 11R with a midi mate vs. a GC Pro (or a similar midi pedal) will be very different.

[madgt621]

If you were seriously looking at the Ground Control Pro brand new, and if the MIDIMate is $450 AU, it may be a better option to just find an American retailer or eBay seller that will ship to Australia.

the current rate is:

1 Australian dollar = about 0.96 USD

The GC Pro brand new is 399.99 USD. Already thats less than the $450 AU for the MIDI Mate. add between $50-100 (and that may be grossly overshooting it) for shipping, and you have the GC Pro, with much more options, for near the same price.

So yeah, try and find an eBay dealer or something. I know Sweetwater ships international, but you'll have to shoot them an email to see if they are allowed to ship it.

Try it out, i do it all the time here in Japan, where some of the stuff is double the price. If it works out, i swear you'll never go back to buying from local retailers again.

[brianiac5150]

Of course, which ever pedal is definitely your choice; however, I do use the Rocktron MIDI Mate pedal with my 11R (as I already had it) and I power it using the Rocktron cable here: http://www.rocktron.com/products/acc...icable5to7pin/

I can say that, if money were no option and I was buying new specifically for the 11R, I would by the GC, as it is laid out with four button rows and corresponds better to the Ax, Bx, Cx, Dx configuration of the 11R presets. I really wish Avid would've stuck with number patches, instead of the letter banks, as there is an immediate disconnect between it and other units using the number sequence. Just a personal opinion and issue, though. Maybe there's some reasoning behind it that I'm missing out on understanding? Other than this little issue, the Rocktron works great with the 11R.

Anyway...good luck with your pedal purchase.

[mr rhys]

This thread interests me as I am in the market for a Midimate, I would love to hear how people have got on with it and their 11r.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by mr rhys

This thread interests me as I am in the market for a Midimate, I would love to hear how people have got on with it and their 11r.

Well, Sean Halley, the guy who did all the vids for Avid with the 11R was using a MIDImate which is why I am so interested. I was hoping that he might respond personally, bu,t perhaps he no longer participates on the boards - a real pity - someone with a much experience as he, is priceless.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Hi, I don't know the answer to your question but in regards to the GC Pro, have you looked on Ebay? Is the price still way up there is you go that route?

I only ask because your experience controlling the 11R with a midi mate vs. a GC Pro (or a similar midi pedal) will be very different.

I understand what you are saying, the "Ground Control" would defintely be the best option, with 8 buttons available to change preset FX. But I have looked on evilBay, and no joy there.

I looked for a number of different brands and the only cheap one I can find is the MIDImate There is even a MIDImate for sale on on ElevenRackPresets. MIDImates are coming out of the woodworks .

Originally Posted by madgt621

If you were seriously looking at the Ground Control Pro brand new, and if the MIDIMate is $450 AU, it may be a better option to just find an American retailer or eBay seller that will ship to Australia.

the current rate is:

1 Australian dollar = about 0.96 USD

So yeah, try and find an eBay dealer or something. I know Sweetwater ships international, but you'll have to shoot them an email to see if they are allowed to ship it.

Try it out, i do it all the time here in Japan, where some of the stuff is double the price. If it works out, i swear you'll never go back to buying from local retailers again.

But .... there is a slight problem with that, I was all set to buy an amp from the US a 6505+ (here $3,295 there, $950) and then I did some research and found that Americans use a different voltage for main power AND a different cycling @ 50 hertz. While you can step up/down the voltage, you can't really do anything about the hertz and it will definitely impact on the sound . That is why I have been trying to find out how these things work e.g. "Phantom Power" or specialised adapters, whether I can get these things where I live, and for how much. Problems, problems and more problems.

And a lot of the larger US dealers are NOT allowed to ship a lot of items they stock to countries like Australia, as they sign contracts with the manufacturers, so they are not allowed to, doing this allows individual manufacuters to artifically inflate prices in our country, it typical to see prices 2.5 to 3 times the prices of US goods after taking into account the exchange rate

And BTW I keep a close eye on the exchange rate .

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by brianiac5150

Of course, which ever pedal is definitely your choice; however, I do use the Rocktron MIDI Mate pedal with my 11R (as I already had it) and I power it using the Rocktron cable here: http://www.rocktron.com/products/acc...icable5to7pin/

I can say that, if money were no option and I was buying new specifically for the 11R, I would by the GC, as it is laid out with four button rows and corresponds better to the Ax, Bx, Cx, Dx configuration of the 11R presets. I really wish Avid would've stuck with number patches, instead of the letter banks, as there is an immediate disconnect between it and other units using the number sequence. Just a personal opinion and issue, though. Maybe there's some reasoning behind it that I'm missing out on understanding? Other than this little issue, the Rocktron works great with the 11R.

Anyway...good luck with your pedal purchase.

Sorry for the mutiple posts but I felt I should try and respond to each reply.

Thanks for that information about the cabling that makes everything just that little bit easier. Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

I agree about the Ground Control Pro as well, definitely more options available, and if I were to buy another product in the future then the Ground Control would be the perfect controller. But money is tight and I would like a volume/wah contol as well, so that's even more money - aarrgghh .

[Stratus]

There are many ways to configure the 11R, pedal, amps, PAs, etc. For example, the cable that @brianiac5150 mentioned will work fine if you want to plug the power adapter into an outlet near the 11R, then you only have a single midi cable to run to the Midimate footswitch. Another option which I use is to locate the 11R in front of me on an amp stand that angles back slightly which make it easy to see the 11R panel.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ELAID=73933383

Then I can run power to the 11R and the Midimate easily since they are both in front of me. Just another possibility.

I use the Midimate Controller Mode which allows 5 preset choices on the bottom buttons and CC changes for effects on the top set of buttons. It takes a little reading but it is not too bad to set it up. Those 5 presets need to be set up sequentially in the 11R if you plan to use that mode. It provides a lot of flexibility if you don't need a large number of patches simultaneously. You can also change modes with a couple button pushes and select any patch by number or up/down bank should you need that.

[Sean Halley]

My apologies! I have been slammed with work, so I've been away for awhile.

Okay, so, lots of stuff here. A couple things:

I actually have both the MIDIMate and the GC Pro. The MM lives on my studio pedalboard, where it drives both a Bradshaw 4x4 and an Axxess Gr4 switcher (mounted on the board underneath the pedals) for the pedals on the board, and the Bradshaw amp switcher up on top.

Since the launch of the 11R however, I refuse to lift the damn thing because it's heavy .

So yes. The current firmware of the MIDIMate allows you to control 5 Continuous Controller buttons and five Program Change buttons at the same time. It's a nice number.

However, that is not enough for moi, so I run the original V1 firmware that came with the MIDIMate I bought in the early nineties (which died from spilled beer overload before I moved to LA in 99'

The guys from Rocktron replied to me when I asked about this recently, and they do have the original V1 firmware available, if you inquire. It requires a swap of an EPROM inside the pedal, but it's very easy to do and takes two minutes.

Why swap? Because the V1 MM firmware allows you to control all 10 Continuous Controllers at once. When I go in to CC mode, I'm improvising anyway, so I don't need to change patches. I need all those controllers for head channel switching, Timefactor bypass, all the pedals themselves, my Spin II hack...etc etc... Losing the ability to change full patches in CC mode doesn't bother me.

As far as the MIDI phantom power goes, I built myself a little box:

http://www.seanhalley.com/boxtop.jpg

http://www.seanhalley.com/boxside.jpg


I plug the power adapter into the little box, which is in the rackcase with the 11R. The phantom power travels down the cable to the pedal (the Rocktron MIDI XPression or the GC Pro in this case), which powers it. The voltage isn't connected to the pins that go to the 11R, so there is no way that anything could ever really happen to it if some massive failure occurred. You could do the same with the MIDIMate, but it would require you to use a seven pin DIN connector and cable.

Of course, this requires a MIDI cable with all of the pins wired - it will NOT work with typical retail store cables, because they typically save money by only wiring the three pins that 99% of all of the MIDI gear in the world uses.

If you don't use the phantom power, just get a normal 5-pin MIDI cable. Connect the power adapter to the MM, and connect the MIDI cable between the MM and the 11R - aligning the pins on the MIDI cable to the pin on the jack on the MM. You're done

Sorry again for the lateness. You'll find that the MM is a good pedal for the money and size, and is very flexible in what it can do. I leave it in the studio because of the compact size (and the fact that it's Dual Locked to the top of the 4x4 switcher underneath it , and I use either a MIDI Xpression or GC Pro live nowadays.

Hope that helps - let me know if anything needs to be clarified.

S..