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  #41  
Old 12-06-2022, 03:01 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Originally Posted by gnjlee View Post
I get what you are saying. So I, like many folks on this board, have been in the computer industry for a very long time, and have been an early adopter of software products many times, and have seen companies use this approach many many times. It is an accepted practice.

BTW If you have used a Microsoft product, chances are you also have unwittingly been an unpaid QA/QC subject.
What other companies charge their users $399 a year for support and updates while offering beta applications in return? I don't know any in the industry at all. Heck, Reaper always publish their current beta that anyone can use and test at any given time. I don't think it is a coincidence that they also had their first release version with AS support available more than two years ahead of Avid.

Heading down slippery slopes ain't ever going to be considered accepted practice by me.
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  #42  
Old 12-06-2022, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

Avid sells systems, Reaper (and Logic, etc.) is just software.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-2022, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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What other companies charge their users $399 a year for support and updates while offering beta applications in return?
Well not in this industry, but close. Just for kicks I will present a comparison.

Adobe CC subscription costs 71,33EUR plus VAT on monthly subscription, which means 1061,39EUR yearly with tax included (businesses can claim tax back later). And no betas. Price is from Finland, EU.
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  #44  
Old 12-06-2022, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Maybe because they would want to get more real world feedback than their internal beta testers can provide?
Agreed. This is such a big change in operation (more than adding a feature) that it really makes sense to get as many people possible trying it, while making them aware that the vast 3rd-party ecosystem means it's probably not ready for every kind of complex mission-critical work right away.

I've watched my peers using Logic and Cubase trying to... adapt to the change with those DAWs, and Avid's approach does seem to make sense.
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  #45  
Old 12-06-2022, 06:13 PM
moogboy100 moogboy100 is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon View Post
I was curious about this statement: "Pro Tools will still launch by default using Rosetta 2 but users can switch to run natively and try out the improved performance as well as using partner plugins."

Will there be a Rosetta2/Apple Silicon switch programmed at the startup for Protools? Or will we manually disable Rosetta 2 before starting Protools to run in Apple silicon native mode? Or will we be able to switch from Rosetta 2 mode to Apple Silicon Native mode on the fly while running Protools? I don't know about the software architecture so I am curious if we switch to run Protools in Apple Silicon Native but encounter a non-native plugin, with Protools switch back to Rosetta 2, or the plugin won't run, or Protools will crash? My limited understanding is it needs to all be Apple Silicon Native or all be Rosetta 2. I realize that this is a dilemma that we anticipated, but it still part of the transition process and growing pains we face.
Select App in Finder. Get Info. Toggle Rosetta 2 On or Off. That's how it'll work.
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  #46  
Old 12-06-2022, 06:58 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Well not in this industry, but close. Just for kicks I will present a comparison.

Adobe CC subscription costs 71,33EUR plus VAT on monthly subscription, which means 1061,39EUR yearly with tax included (businesses can claim tax back later). And no betas. Price is from Finland, EU.
What? Adobe no betas? Just No. How about some of the best run private and public beta programs in the world.

Adobe has massive very well run private and public beta programs. Users can download multiple public beta releases of Adobe products now, all be selecting the beta options in the Creative Cloud desktop. I have ten major beta apps available to me, and am running one of them (Photoshop) alongside the release version. Adobe also has also has large scale testing of new apps to "try things out". Right now I can download full beta versions of Apps like Photoshop or run the production releases. Folks can get easy access to beta community forums to discuss stuff just about the betas. There is extremely good outgoing comms about beta plans/goals/directions often kicked off from the annual Adobe Max conference. I can also work within those apps and use features like new ML (Machine Learning) "Neural Filter" algorithms either on the local computer or offload to cloud processing and within that Neural Filter family of features I can use released modules or beta/early access modules, include a whole process for folks to sign up to waitlists for early access to specific new filters a just fantastic way for those development teams to get direct feedback with users in a fast moving product/technology area. And there is a whole separate Photoshop and Illustrator and more "in the Web" web browser based public beta apps running now.

Former Adobe consultant and employee here (from long ago). And when we launched major new products the level of customer outreach and hand holding and early access was super impressive. Pioneering stuff with super large users/companies to pushing products out to huge individual audiences. And a wonderful technical internal culture with competent engineering teams. All some of the best I've seen or been involved in at any company. And yet when there is better innovation happening outside, Adobe being well run as a business is in a position to buy it. Some worked well, some not so (Macromedia, cough), I expect the Figma acquisition to go great.

Well run wide scale public betas of software are a super helpful part of reducing configuration management issues in production releases, maximizing useful product feedback and innovating fast while maintaining quality. The other thing modern software companies make use of is feature flagging, where the vendor can turn on and off pre-release features in released versions of software. We used that quite effectively in the early days of VMware... we also within a couple of years were running public beta programs with ~50k users in them, that scale sure helped turn up issues. Not bad for a then tiny company. I'd not want to confuse Avid with a company that is too overall competent with it's development and product management, but seeing them talk about a public beta here, I take as a good sign.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 12-06-2022 at 07:44 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-06-2022, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

For some reason no betas in Finland. Maybe it changes next year when we are officially NATO
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  #48  
Old 12-06-2022, 07:20 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

Public betas can be valuable. And it does feel like we end up doing a lot of testing and bug logging anyway...

But it really does depend on good logging and feedback structures. The mention of using Avid Link does not inspire confidence.
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  #49  
Old 12-06-2022, 07:40 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
For some reason no betas in Finland. Maybe it changes next year when we are officially NATO
Wow not even US English versions? No Beta app icon in the left sidebar of Creative Cloud Desktop App? (see screenshot) What about Neural Filters Waitlist signups in Photoshop? What about access to Web Photoshop? (https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/...loud-beta.html)

Now I want to know why...
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  #50  
Old 12-06-2022, 08:08 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools M1 support - dec 27th (beta)

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Well not in this industry, but close. Just for kicks I will present a comparison.

Adobe CC subscription costs 71,33EUR plus VAT on monthly subscription, which means 1061,39EUR yearly with tax included (businesses can claim tax back later). And no betas. Price is from Finland, EU.
You can't honestly be referring to Adobe CC?

...the one with an entire tab dedicated to beta apps?

Obfuscating the testing of software is the thing I most object to. All it would take is a simple check box, whether in an initial Pro Tools load screen or in Avid Link, that allows users to choose between installing/running the most recent, rigorously tested and stable release, or a pre-release beta. If you need to get work done, use the release version. If you want to spend time testing and mucking around with pre-release versions... use the beta.

Users aren't dumb. A lot of software these days has that simple check box tucked out of the way. If people check that box... they know full well what pre-release software entails.
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