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  #1  
Old 03-14-2011, 03:02 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

Hi,

Can anybody suggest a sync generator to feed reference in to the Blackmagic Extreme 3d card and the Sync HD to force mt PT HD2 accel to align to the video edge playback?

Mac 8 core, PT HD 9, Sync HD, Blackmagic Extreme, Pro-Res 422 at 1920X1080 and 720P
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2011, 03:27 PM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

Is that you I just emailed a reply? If you have locked Sync HD to the card's video output, and have a lock light, do this next:

Generate timecode during playback. (Button is on the Synchronization Toolbar) That will force PT to align audio timeline frame edges to the reference signal's frame edges.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:04 PM
JKD99 JKD99 is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

I use the AJA Gen-10; it generates Black to PT and Tri-Level to my Kona LH on VVTR simultaneously, I'd think it would work for your setup.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2011, 04:31 PM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

Quote:
I use the AJA Gen-10; it generates Black to PT and Tri-Level to my Kona LH on VVTR simultaneously
I have a Gen-10. There is no alignment of frame edges between the Gen10's SD and HD outputs. No drift between them since they run from the same master clock, but also no frame edge alignment. Obviously, the whole idea falls apart if SD and HD frame rates do not match. Gen-10 is a decent affordable generator but not a good way to interlock SD and HD equipment.

garnoil's arrangement should work with SD frame rates, specifically 25 and 29.97, with a matching PT timeline rate. If he is trying to use something like a 23.976 movie but locking to an SD downconvert (like 29.97), there will be sync irregularities because the frame edges are not always in the same place.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:03 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
Is that you I just emailed a reply? If you have locked Sync HD to the card's video output, and have a lock light, do this next:

Generate timecode during playback. (Button is on the Synchronization Toolbar) That will force PT to align audio timeline frame edges to the reference signal's frame edges.
Yes if your name is Richard or Albert. And no, generating TC does not appear to align to the video edge. Balckmagic tech support suggests that I have to feed tri-sync to the ref in of the card so that the card's video output is also tri-sync referenced for HD sync. For SD sync they say to feed blackburst to the card.

Thank you for your help.
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2011, 07:22 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

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Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
Yes if your name is Richard or Albert. And no, generating TC does not appear to align to the video edge. Balckmagic tech support suggests that I have to feed tri-sync to the ref in of the card so that the card's video output is also tri-sync referenced for HD sync. For SD sync they say to feed blackburst to the card.

Thank you for your help.
Forgot to answer your whole question. I do have all of my Syn HD box lights indicating full lock, PT generating TC (blue light "on" on the transport bar), and I am working wit Pro_Res 422 at 1920X1080 and I also tried Pro-Res 720p. System appears to work fine, picture out looks good, but my frame edge alignment is not right. May be it is something else with my system but I can not get PT to spot audio to video at exactly the same place twice (even if I use absolute grid).
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2011, 08:34 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Exclamation Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

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Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
May be it is something else with my system but I can not get PT to spot audio to video at exactly the same place twice (even if I use absolute grid).
Spotting a region on the timeline should not be affected by whatever sync signal is being used with the SYNC peripheral. The video ref at the SYNC peripheral will affect playback speed and alignment of the frame edge to the video edge while playing.

23.98 and 29.97 line up once every five frames. I have also observed that 29.97 (bi-level) and 59.94 (tri-level) signals being generated from the same device are not always synchronous at the edge. Some VTRs (SRW-5500) have a range where they can still synchronize the different signals together. Once outside of that range, the VTR will indicate an asynchronous signal. The only way to guarantee that 29.97 and 59.94 are synchronous is to use a WFM with two (2) CVBS inputs or use a timing display (if it's a Tektronix). Unless the VTR is reporting an asynchronous signal, it may not be worth adjusting the timing to make it perfect.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2011, 09:43 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

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Originally Posted by Chief Technician View Post
Spotting a region on the timeline should not be affected by whatever sync signal is being used with the SYNC peripheral. The video ref at the SYNC peripheral will affect playback speed and alignment of the frame edge to the video edge while playing.

23.98 and 29.97 line up once every five frames. I have also observed that 29.97 (bi-level) and 59.94 (tri-level) signals being generated from the same device are not always synchronous at the edge. Some VTRs (SRW-5500) have a range where they can still synchronize the different signals together. Once outside of that range, the VTR will indicate an asynchronous signal. The only way to guarantee that 29.97 and 59.94 are synchronous is to use a WFM with two (2) CVBS inputs or use a timing display (if it's a Tektronix). Unless the VTR is reporting an asynchronous signal, it may not be worth adjusting the timing to make it perfect.
I work with 23.978 most of the time. It looks like if I spot a "marker" or a "test sound" sound with absolute grid set to 1/4 frame and the nudge increments are also set to 1/4 frame the sync is tighter and I can spot the region to the exact same place (I tried this 6 or 8 times times it looked like it worked although one time it did not). If I do the same with absolute grid set at 1 frame or even 1/2 frame, the sync to the exact spot changes all the time and if I was to re-spot the sound it would not end up in the same place. I don't know why this happens, may be it is just my system, but I followed all pt guidelines (video and audio in a separate drives), no un-suported plugs, etc.

May be someone can try this:

Video Pro_res 422 res 1920X1080, frame 23.978 (film 90 minutes but I think any size file will be the same).

Set PT to absolute grid at 1 frame and nudge value at 1 frame.

Set cursor anywhere ahead of the cut (pt will force cursor to fall at the grid line), press "+" one click at the time to advance PT to desire cut.

Once at the cut, place marker or audio region.

Hit the space bar and let PT play for 30 seconds.

Press stop.

Locate cursor back anywhere before the "marked edit" (may be 15 frames before). PT will force cursor to align to grid.

Again, press "+" one click at the time to advance PT to desire cut.

Once at the desire cut, check that the video is in fact exactly at that cut and not before of after.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:56 AM
hummerZ hummerZ is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

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Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
Once at the desire cut, check that the video is in fact exactly at that cut and not before of after.
Well that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I can't even decipher what you're talking about. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with resolved reference.

I can tell you that I use a blackmagic card unresolved, and I'm getting perfect sync, every time, every frame, checked with a syncheck.

Offsets of course, but always exactly the same.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:03 AM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Sync Generator to resolve PT with Blackmagic Extreme card

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Originally Posted by hummerZ View Post
Well that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I can't even decipher what you're talking about. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with resolved reference.

I can tell you that I use a blackmagic card unresolved, and I'm getting perfect sync, every time, every frame, checked with a syncheck.

Offsets of course, but always exactly the same.
Yes you are right, it makes no sense. I also have an Intensity Pro card (un-referenced) and the sync check box, and I was using that for about 3 years, so I know how they work. This is a new problem that I am seeing, it may be related to PT9 or may be not, but as of now I have the work around (using absolute grid but at 1/4 frame not at whole frame). I also think I am getting close to finding out why it is doing it. Of course, this things happen at the worse times so I really have no time to for example "make a video" so that others can actually see the problem.
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