AVID, PLEASE CLARIFY. Recording-playback-editing on system drive.

[peccatte]

A recent video advertisement from Avid specifically features people playing back and editing using Mac laptop core audio with no external interface. There are also no external drives in sight in these films.

We've always been told not to record to the system drive (though I have done so successfully for the past 6 years on a PC laptop using PT LE 7.4.)

My main question is whether playback from, and editing on the system drive are also not recommended.

I've just ordered a new MacBook Pro and PT 10/11 and it would be extremely convenient to carry only the computer for editing while traveling.

I've also found it convenient recording to the system drive.

Has Avid changed its stance about recording to the drive? How about editing, is that a different matter altogether?

There seems to be considerable disagreement about this subject on the DUC.

Thanks.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by peccatte

A recent video advertisement from Avid specifically features people playing back and editing using Mac laptop core audio with no external interface. There are also no external drives in sight in these films.

We've always been told not to record to the system drive (though I have done so successfully for the past 6 years on a PC laptop using PT LE 7.4.)

My main question is whether playback from, and editing on the system drive are also not recommended.

I've just ordered a new MacBook Pro and PT 10/11 and it would be extremely convenient to carry only the computer for editing while traveling.

I've also found it convenient recording to the system drive.

Has Avid changed its stance about recording to the drive? How about editing, is that a different matter altogether?

There seems to be considerable disagreement about this subject on the DUC.

Thanks.

Hi,

You can use the internal drive ok, i do it on my laptop and get a good track count!

Saying that it is very much advised to use a separate drive for audio recording, its safer and less likely to give issues.


Chris

[smfelton]

Do it all the time om my i5 Macbook Air, I get better performance with an external USB3 drive, but perfectly acceptable without. I tend to bounce any VI's that are completed then hide and make inactive so I can go back to them, just to ease the load....

[Park Seward]

Recording on the system drive is not recommended by Avid. You will get higher track counts with an external drive.

That said, many do find recording to the system drive acceptable.It is just not recommended for maximum performance.

[Craig F]

worst case that I have seen happen with a rig I set up for a songwriter that used the System drive and not eh Audio drive I put in
Pro Tools locked up and over wrote the System folder of the OS requiring an OS reinstall to fix
This was on OS9 and thing have improved since then but I'm gun shy
edit:
also if your video is on the same drive that can slow things down

[Dave Lang]

Do it all the time with my MacBook Pro. Usually relatively low track counts (less than 30 total) & plugins but works for me.

[Bruce Paine]

You will get higher track count with a separate dedicated recording drive than the system drive.

Also, unless your internal system drive is an SSD, my understanding is that you will eventually build up drive fragmentation. It's a lot easier to defragment a separate recording drive, since you can just do a quick reformat to defrag. You can defrag a system drive of course with various disk utilities, but it takes longer.

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by Craig F

worst case that I have seen happen with a rig I set up for a songwriter that used the System drive and not eh Audio drive I put in
Pro Tools locked up and over wrote the System folder of the OS requiring an OS reinstall to fix
This was on OS9 and thing have improved since then but I'm gun shy
edit:
also if your video is on the same drive that can slow things down

Prior to PT 10, Pro Tools was doing some direct disk access, which was an old trick used to get acceptable performance from the then-slow hard disk drives.

Problem was, direct disk access bypasses the operating system. Which meant that while Pro Tools was writing to the disk, the operating system could also be writing to the disk.

And since both Pro Tools and the operating system each thought they had exclusive control of the disk, they could, and sometimes did, right to the same area of the disk. Result? A very scrambled disk!

So, by using one drive, controlled by the operating system, and holding the operating system and programs, and another drive, controlled by Pro Tools, which contained the Pro Tools audio files and such, the problem was eliminated, albeit in a less than optimal way.

But, since Pro Tools no longer does direct disk access, but instead uses the operating system for file reads/writes, the problem is eliminated in a more elegant manner.

So, since Pro Tools has eliminated the major problem that prohibited recording to the "system" drive, it's now all a matter of the read/write speed of your drive and the demands you're placing on it.

Which means...

Fast drive + small sessions = probably okay (but maybe not).

But...

Slow drive + just about any session size = probably crash and burn.

So, you might test writing to the system drive on the computer you're using with a typical session. Do this with a non-critical session and see how it works.

But it's probably best if you don't post your results because there are simply too many variables. If you want to do it, test it yourself!

And recording to a dedicated (not necessarily external) drive is still your best bet...

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by smfelton

Do it all the time om my i5 Macbook Air, I get better performance with an external USB3 drive, but perfectly acceptable without. I tend to bounce any VI's that are completed then hide and make inactive so I can go back to them, just to ease the load....

This is what I do ... but I had looked towards PT11 or CPTK as possible upgrades that could add HD's disk cache feature to address these issues (although we have yet to try the new PT11 64-bit audio engine and more RAM with VIs).

However, as you'll see in the various CPTK-related PT11 topics on DUC (as well as Gearslutz), it looks like Avid haven't taken the opportunity to allow for a 'dream' portable or 'low-end' project studio setup and annoyed a lot of faithful 'mid-level' users in the process. These are actually the very people who could eventually need and upgrade to HD hardware - facilities who need HD hardware will buy it regardless so I'm a bit confused why they would not just offer the best features to everyone.

[Bill Denton]

Keep in mind that Avid's primary focus is now going to be the professional users that have long been their bread and butter.

Two options...

1. Avid could issue a requirement that says "You can record on the system drive, but only if it's an ABC drive running on a DEF couputer running version GHI of the operating system on a day with no greater than 70% humidity and an air temperarture between 68 degrees and 72 degrees, or ..." and so-on and so-forth for 4,000 pages or so, and even then some user would b*tch because it wouldn't work at 67-3/4 degrees, or...

2. Avid can say, "Don't record on the system drive" and offer a certain minimal number of track counts, etc. and be done with it.

Any true professional, who has a lot of money riding on their decisions, is going to go with Option 2 every time.

Of course, the rest of us are free to try Option 1, and if you blow up the basement the only downside will be pissing off your mom and your insurance company, so why not give it a go?