Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Eleven Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:48 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 15,112
Default Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

The main reason to use S/PDIF is just to avoid stuff like hum/noise pickup. And unneeded conversion to analog and back to digital.... although fir most stuff I doubt folks can hear anything that.

The reason the Eleven Rack sounded "crap" is you were either using the dry signal when you should have used the wet, or you did not spend time to dial in the amp sim. If I gave you a room of something like a dozen amps and dozen cabs how many days would you spend playing playing with them looking for the right tone...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:54 AM
Jay_uk Jay_uk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh View Post
So Ive read the manual and it says something about True-Z circuit changing the guitar signal the same "manner as plugging into a real amp or effect." It doesn't say what that impedance value is.
This statement implies that you are unaware of the True-Z setting/selection
In edit mode…the first block is the "input" and thats where the True-Z setting/selection is.
turning the knob underneath it selects different settings.
Auto may be the best default setting.
Couild be you have had it on a low setting, which is not suitable to the pick ups you are using.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:29 AM
panamajack's Avatar
panamajack panamajack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Miniappleapolis
Posts: 713
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh View Post
. . . Was wondering if I need to convert to mic level before it goes into Eleven and by doing this I'll have the original tone (the highs) of the guitar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh View Post
. . . True-Z circuit changing the guitar signal the same "manner as plugging into a real amp or effect." It doesn't say what that impedance value is. . .

. . . This supposed True-Z, do I need to activate it? Is is supposed to act as a DI box? Does it bring the high impedance down to low? It's just that there's no difference plugging into my interface vs going through eleven. NONE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh View Post
I have a countryman type 85 active di box and obviously an eleven rack..rack. And mbox pro.
It's clear to me the true-z does little to nothing to the signal to improve or alter the impedance for recording at least for clean presets. . .

My question is simply

1) if I ran a di box into an eleven rack input will the signal be altered in any way. In other words will the eleven rack mess up the di box signal after the outputs of eleven go direct into interface?

2) My second question is if I run the output of eleven rack (essentially amp out) into my di box (with guitar-in eleven obviously) will I get a purer tone than the above given the di box is last on the chain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh View Post
. . . What you're saying is run a S/PDIF from eleven not an analogue XLR. If yes, is it possible the reason eleven sounded crap was because I used XLR to mbox to record rather than digital? . . .
There may be some confusion as to the method you have used to experiment with your tone. Your first post above may have been prompted by how you subsequently note you were using the XLR connections from the 11R into the mbox. You would have had to pad the input or use a line level input on the mbox or you would likely get a distorted signal.

After reading your posts, the question remains as to what guitar and which stage amp would you use if you did not own an 11R?

Whatever the answer to that might be will affect your expectations from the 11R.

But your statements above reveal confusion about how to connect your hardware:

You do not need an mbox to record, the audio from the 11R will travel through the USB connection to the computer, assuming your 11R driver is loaded. (Although there are other connections possible.)

If you want to experiment with the mbox, then how you connect the 11R becomes critical. If you connect the XLR output from the 11R to the mbox, you will be sending a line level (slightly boosted signal). If you connect the "amp outputs" you will be sending an instrument level signal, the same level signal your (passive) guitar signal sends, but which may have been processed and converted to "rig output."

The True-Z settings are not for impedance matching, they are for emulating the way certain combo amp input jacks interact with instrument level guitar signals. Whether your guitar has single coil, double coil, passive or active pickups, and even the choice of potentiometers and any capacitors/resistors wired in-line, will affect tone.

Even if you have connected your cables correctly (for whatever purpose), you must additionally select the type of signal being routed to Pro Tools.

To answer your two simple questions:

1) The 11R "guitar in" input jack accepts a high impedance signal, but your Direct box outputs a low impedance signal. The benefit of a low impedance balanced signal is to reduce the hum created by long cable runs. Doing what you are asking is contrary to how the 11R is designed.

2) Searching for a "purer tone" is very subjective. The best direct boxes add no coloration. If you used the correct connections, it would allow longer cable runs from the "amp outs" -- but is unnecessary from the balanced XLR line-level outputs.
__________________
PT10.3.10HD(Tyan s2932 [8core Shanghai 2.7GHZ] 32GB,Win7 SP1); PT10HD(Tyan s2892 w/10GB, Win7 SP1);PT8HD(Dell 690 quad Xeon 3.0, 8GB, Win7,192 I/O, 96 I/O);MacBook Pro: 11R, Apogee Element 46, Focusrite 8PreX PT HD 11.3.2; Mac Pro 3.47 Hex 32GB, OSX 10.12.6/L10.4.2;L9.1.8, 2.64TB; G5 D2.3 4GB, 10.4.11/L8; 12c MP 2.66/32GB PT12.4; Structure, GigaGS3, Kontakt 5, Garratin, Sibelius 8.7+, Finale26,EMU,Vegas Pro 16-10/; RME HDSP9652,MOTU 2408 MKIII/1224/308, FX,Kurz,L5s,Strat,ASAT,JB,Zon

Last edited by panamajack; 08-14-2017 at 11:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:07 AM
Kinh Kinh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 374
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Firstly, thanks for your replies.

So check it out. I did an A B comparison (the eleven rack True-z against a countryman type85 di box) and there was a noticeable difference.
The countryman had more detail, brighter highs, more presence. The eleven was muddier, had warmer tone, more bass, less highs.

Both recorded clean. I'm using an SG, middle position and bridge.
The eleven had all fx off except input (true-z auto 1M ohm +cap)..I also tried it at half way (70k ohm) and virtually no difference.
Same cable for both and just mono out for eleven (as countryman is same). I'm using Main Outs from eleven not Line outs.

Now, see if you can spot the difference.
https://soundcloud.com/matthewcrowe/ab-comparison-saddle-pickup
https://soundcloud.com/matthewcrowe/ab-comparison
__________________
Intel 6 Core i7-4930K CPU @ 3.40GHz
32GB DIMM DDR3 G.Skill
Samsung SSD 840 EVO
WD Black SATA 7200
ASUS SABERTOOTH X79
Windows 7 Ultimate 64
Mbox3 Pro Firewire 400
ProTools 10.3.8
ProTools 11.3.1

https://soundcloud.com/matthewcrowe

Last edited by Kinh; 08-16-2017 at 01:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:48 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 15,112
Default Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Again, I am lost why you are focusing on this. Yes listening to comparisons is great., but...

Your first sample is at two different levels, the louder one is likely to sound better. And the rest is just slight differences in EQ.

You don't need a DI box in front of the Eleven Rack, it's the "wrong way" to do stuff. Just set stuff up properly and know what/how to adjust stuff to dial in the tone you want.

I don't have any idea what you are ultimately going for but more commonly folks would get great clean guitar tone with a suitable clean amp not with a dry guitar signal. That wet but clean amp gives you lots of access to dial in what you want, extra EQ, tone shaping, compression, sustain and some pleasant harmonics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-16-2017, 08:56 AM
panamajack's Avatar
panamajack panamajack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Miniappleapolis
Posts: 713
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Thanks for posting the comparison.

My ears hear a little more bottom in the 11 Rack sample than from the Countryman DI--but both sound like acoustic steel-strings, not what I associate with a Gibson SG. I had an SG Standard a generation ago and liked it best through a Big Muff II.

For what you might be going for, I would reach for a good grade of Martin or Taylor steel string and mic them up with a pair of condensers through a good quality pre-amp.

As an aside, I have a Gibson Chet Atkins nylon/electric with piezo pickups. It sounds a little better run through a Fishman "Aura for nylon" (ascoustic imaging stomp box) with the preset on number "12" -- but it is a subtle improvement.

There is a plugin sold by Sonnox called "Oxford Inflator" that has a similar subtle effect as when the "Aura" is added to the Gibson Chet Atkins. It is not something you notice when it is in use until you remove it, then it sounds like something is missing. There is a Youtube video called "Show and Tell of Sonnox Oxford Inflator" that illustrates the plugin.
__________________
PT10.3.10HD(Tyan s2932 [8core Shanghai 2.7GHZ] 32GB,Win7 SP1); PT10HD(Tyan s2892 w/10GB, Win7 SP1);PT8HD(Dell 690 quad Xeon 3.0, 8GB, Win7,192 I/O, 96 I/O);MacBook Pro: 11R, Apogee Element 46, Focusrite 8PreX PT HD 11.3.2; Mac Pro 3.47 Hex 32GB, OSX 10.12.6/L10.4.2;L9.1.8, 2.64TB; G5 D2.3 4GB, 10.4.11/L8; 12c MP 2.66/32GB PT12.4; Structure, GigaGS3, Kontakt 5, Garratin, Sibelius 8.7+, Finale26,EMU,Vegas Pro 16-10/; RME HDSP9652,MOTU 2408 MKIII/1224/308, FX,Kurz,L5s,Strat,ASAT,JB,Zon

Last edited by panamajack; 08-16-2017 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-18-2021, 12:30 PM
shredking shredking is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 1
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

When you put the 11R in tuner mode, all effects turn off and you get a clean tone. It will record clean on your DAW and you can shape your tone from there by adding effects.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-01-2021, 04:26 PM
DonaldR DonaldR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Saint-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 353
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

I hope the guy found a solution in the last 4 years
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-02-2021, 09:21 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 37,271
Default Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?

Indeed! Based on what he says, I bet he doesn't(didn't) have the speaker cab emulation turned on
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, HD/Native, 192 IO
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink, the more I mix

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check out the Eleven Rack Presets Matched for Eleven plugins by Pro Tools Expert! Justin1524 Eleven Rack 0 11-27-2015 03:53 PM
Eleven Rack / Avid is not producing anymore Eleven Racks is that true or false? Rongpat Eleven Rack 8 02-11-2014 08:42 AM
Some experimental tracks using Eleven rack and Eleven RTAS kittybite Eleven Rack 4 06-18-2013 01:18 AM
Eleven Rack window responds to changes on Eleven Rack, unable to record. pine Eleven Rack 6 08-02-2012 08:50 PM
Eleven Rack and Eleven Rack control window not matching 11R Newbie Eleven Rack 3 04-18-2012 07:07 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com