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  #21  
Old 06-23-2002, 05:02 PM
B.Ray B.Ray is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Quote:
Originally posted by Stone Knife:
If Digi does not give permission for those people to go ahead, that's one thing- but it's misplacing the focus to nag Digi to develop these things... it isn't up to them!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At this time, it is proper to nag Digi because they have not perfected the RTAS Instrument Specification for PC. As I stated in my post above, they are still struggling with Soft Sample Cell for PC. Third party developers cannot release devices until Digi straightens this out! There are reports posted in this forum from developers who are trying to release RTAS Instrument compatible devices but can't get them to work on PC (they work on Mac just fine). The problem with the spec must be corrected first. Digi owns the spec, so this is still a Digi problem.

Regarding DirectConnect, David Summich said he wanted to run all 3rd party DC compatible products through a detailed text matrix to insure that they (the vendors) properly implemented the DC Spec on PC. He further said these tests should occur prior to the release of the devices. (He referenced his past experience with releasing VST compatible devices that didn't fully comply with the VST Spec. I don't disagree with him on this - quality is very important). But, this is another area where it IS proper to keep the heat on Digi.

Quote:
Don't spill too many tears over the UA cards, because their latency is such that you can't use 'em in real time anyway, if that helps any.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not true at all. Cubase VST & SX automatically compensates for UA's DPS latency. There is also a delay compesation plug-in available if needed for special situations. No, latency is not a problem with the UAD-1. Yes, the UAD-1 does provide real-time plug-ins AND many engineers have reported that those plug-ins sound as good as the "Real" devices they are simulating. Multi-card support is coming soon too!

It actually works better than Digi's TDM which has no auto latency compensation.
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2002, 05:46 PM
Phil O'Keefe Phil O'Keefe is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Quote:
Originally posted by kris whitten:

"here Mr. Hater, we wanna give you a car. Your choice, BMW or honda"

YOu probably would pick the Honda huh?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well Kris, you bring up a lot of excellent points. I own a Mac and several PC's, so I refuse to get into the "which is better" arguments, which I find pointless.

But as to your car analogy, I drive a Mazda Miata. I suppose I could have picked a Porsche Boxter or a BMW roadster, but the Miata's perfect for me. It corners great, looks cool, goes as fast as I would ever really need or want, and cost considerably less than either of the other options. And I don't feel like I'm giving anything up except for the "names". And the extra "bank" can go a long way towards other gear for the studio... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #23  
Old 06-23-2002, 05:56 PM
marcusb marcusb is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

If rewire, and vst instruments are so important to you guys why don't you just use a sequencer that supports them. In reality you should choose the right tool for the job, and sitting here bitching and moaning about it isn't really gonna help your cause. As far as i'm concerned the Digi001 fits into a slightly more niche market than your average soundcard + sequencer combination.

Another $0.02cents

Marcus
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  #24  
Old 06-23-2002, 05:58 PM
Stone Knife Stone Knife is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Some points well made, by BRay about Digi's end of the bargain.

However I found the remarks of the UA heavy-handed leaving no room for contrary experience.

In regard to the UA-1 product, it is so latency-free that they created a compensator for it. That is an interesting situation.

Then you go on to say that Cubase compensates for this (non-existant) latency.

The latency compensator does nothing for live monitoring, however, since a time machine has yet to be invented that could take something back in time to before it was processed and delayed.

Following an equipment review in one of PriMedia's publications (Mix, EM or ???) I decided to test out the UA board myself... I found the latency to be of a level of magnitude beyond what I could stand while doing live V/O parts- and so for my application it was not usable. It may be fine for what you do, but it was not in the one we tried.

For anyone to flatly state an opinion is "not true at all" belies an "authority-over-everything, dogmatic black-and-white" attitude I find somewhat off-putting, to put it politely.

Re: D.C.:
Since it is up to the 3rd party developers to get it right, and not for Digi to pass stuff that doesn't deserve to pass, "Keeping the 'heat' on Digi" is just silly. Sounds all militaristic and blustery, but is just pointless under the surface. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

And the UA board, while similar, did not sound the same as the outboard unit.
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  #25  
Old 06-23-2002, 06:27 PM
da BaSsTaRd! da BaSsTaRd! is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Quote:
Originally posted by kris whitten:
well, well, well, I could really drop a bomb and burn the whole duc down to the ground with this one.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">perhaps you missed this thread...
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2002, 06:42 PM
pk_hat pk_hat is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

ouch! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #27  
Old 06-23-2002, 11:24 PM
Stone Knife Stone Knife is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

DaB: Could you also post the "Nice Cup Of Shut The **** UP" ? Naw, better not. The ferrets are everywhere. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2002, 11:42 PM
mattm mattm is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Quote:
Originally posted by DigiTechSupt:
I "resemble" that remark !

Tom S.
Digidesign customer service
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HEY! that's my line! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2002, 12:26 AM
da BaSsTaRd! da BaSsTaRd! is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

rewire would be AWESOME! i don't think reason conflicts with digi's core mission. correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't digi partnered up with other companies in the past to produce plugins? if digi is deliberately staying out of the business of making soft-synths, then teaming up with propellerheads to make 2 great products into one seamless amazing product could only increase sales, right?
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  #30  
Old 06-24-2002, 01:59 AM
B.Ray B.Ray is offline
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Default Re: MY HONEST THOUGHTS ON XP RELEASE

Quote:
Originally posted by Stone Knife:
However I found the remarks of the UA heavy-handed leaving no room for contrary experience.

In regard to the UA-1 product, it is so latency-free that they created a compensator for it. That is an interesting situation.

Then you go on to say that Cubase compensates for this (non-existant) latency.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I can see how you would be confused by all this. Kinda' like how some people get confused about the PTLE Click track deal. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Here's an explanation written by a UAD-1 user:
Quote:
1 - the latency is dependent on one thing only - your audio card latency. If your latency is low, your UAD latency will also be low. The exact latency is twice your audio card latency because it takes one ASIO buffer to get to the card and one to come back. If you use Realverb Pro on a send, it may or may not be a problem depending on the predelay you set for the reverb. This is because an average predelay setting on most reverbs is usually much larger than the average users latency anyway.
2 - The delay compensation plugin allows you to delay other groups if you need to run a plug on a group. For instance, if you want to run 1176LN across a drum group, you would run all of your other tracks to another group and insert the delay compensator. There is automatic delay compensation on recorded (not live) audio channels so it is not needed there. (The auto delay compensator currently only works on audio tracks, not on groups.)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, the guys over at the UAD-1 Forum have some explanations that go into more detail about specific usage. Check it out homeboy!Forum Link

I've been using a Korg OASYS PCI (DSP EFX & Synths) for a year, so I'm very familiar with DSP latency issues. You deal with it just like everything else in life. That's why they call it Recording Engineering. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Regarding the quality of their plug-ins is concerned, that's always a matter of opinion. I like 'em (I've heard them on several occasions). As soon as I upgrade to Cubase SX, I'm going to pick up one. I think the UAD-1 is an outstanding product...I'm looking forward to using it. They're adding the Pultec EQ to their lineup. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

You can attack my views on the DC & RTAS Instrument situation all you want. My views are based on quotes from 3rd party vendors, Digi engineers and my understanding of the product development process.

That's one of the purposes of forums like this...to express opinions and view points. I welcome oppossing views. As an academic exercise, it would be more interesting if they were based on something a little more substantial.
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