64 Bit Pro Tools? RTAS Working on ALL Cores?

[Bentley Ferrari]

Hey Digi,

What can you tell us about your position re: Pro Tools running under Snow Leopard? Do you plan on taking advantage of the 64-bit operating system by making Pro Tools a 64-bit application? Is there a sense of urgency about this, or a view that this is a top priority objective?

Windows can run in 64-bit mode now, and Snow Leopard will run in 64-bit mode when it's released next year. (To avoid confusing anyone, we're speaking here of the operating system architecture, not bit depth rates.) Some DAW apps take advantage of this already and enjoy remarkable performance gains as a result. This is obviously where technology is leading us.

Has there been any discussion of the ways a development like this will impact the Pro Tools user experience? For example, what might it mean for real-time plug-in performance, RTAS or otherwise? Might it result in a new plug-in format (other than RTAS)? What about your sample-based plug-ins?

Do you see this as an opportunity to address RTAS performance issues

Is Digidesign excited about this, or is it considered an external development that won't make a significant difference? Is the answer different depending upon whether we're talking about TDM, LE, VENUE, etc.?

I think you can give us some input here that is useful and interesting without compromising corporate interests. I think it might even be inspiring. Lord knows we could use a shot-in-the arm in this current business climate! More basically, though, as individuals and businesses who have invested in your equipment and software and who have been using it for years, it would be reasonable to have some idea where this train is heading, and what our studios will look like in the next 3 to 10 years.

Thanks. (And please see this as a sincere inquiry from a proud user.)

[JFreak]

Hold your horses...

[Bentley Ferrari]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Hold your horses...

Believe me, I'm not even at the starting gate. You might say I've been walking through the stables, and wondering how my two-year old thoroughbreds in training will be running given the changes in the industry coming in the next few years. You could say Digidesign is my trainer, and I'm wondering what he's thinking about changes in thoroughbred racing, and how he'll be adapting to those changes. I think that's reasonable. Responsible, even. I certainly don't see it as being an illegitimate question. How much Digi or any other company wishes to broadcast is their business, of course, as we area all free players here.

[peppertree]

Since digi still considers itself a "hardware company," you are asking it if it's excited about its direct competitor.

I think they wish the clock would just stop at 2003 and they could have DSP and i/o preeminence forever.

I'm not sure they have figured out just how to proceed. I think they hope audio engineers are dull enough to believe that native is somehow permanently crippled vs. their old TDM technology.

Many, sadly, are.

[sirpucho]

Originally Posted by peppertree

Since digi still considers itself a "hardware company," you are asking it if it's excited about its direct competitor.

I think they wish the clock would just stop at 2003 and they could have DSP and i/o preeminence forever.

I'm not sure they have figured out just how to proceed. I think they hope audio engineers are dull enough to believe that native is somehow permanently crippled vs. their old TDM technology.

Many, sadly, are.

I suspect you are well off the mark here how many LE systems do Digi sell compared to TDM ? A lot more and this is a 32bit float point system do you believe they'll just let that valuable business go?

It's my understanding they have some of the best floating point coders around, they have been doing it for over 10 years 001 anyone?

I would expect the next Gen of LE even of HD to be a higher (than current) floating point, superior sounding product and they are working on it as we speak, because if they weren't they would be insane and I don't believe they are. They have the floating point knowledge from all these years working on LE

I think they will surprise people it's not all about the TDM at Digi anymore. What's the complete production toolkit for LE addressing there's not a lot you can't do on LE with this. Perhaps the future HD is simply a higher quality float point or just a totally unlocked no limit LE

There will of course still be hardware I/Os etc as there is with LE, what is a Mac Pro if it isn't a big expensive Logic dongle ? Apple are a hardware company also so their model is no different to DIGI.

I could be wrong of course but if I was a gambling man I'd take that bet. The DSP on Pcs and Macs now has the raw power to take float point to a higher quality and that's where I think it will go

I for one can't wait to see it

[Bentley Ferrari]

What will really yield the biggest changes, IMO, is hardware and software that takes full advantage of all the implications of 64bit OS architecture. Being able to address terrabytes of memory for one. And this is not far off. We're talking years, not decades. So there must be at least a rough roadmap in a file drawer somewhere. We've got members in this forum that have a good grasp of this, I think.

[DigiTechSupt]

As you know, discussion of future developments is something that has some very tight controls, so I can't say a whole lot on this subject.

Going 64 bit is high on our list, yes - it will mainly start with drivers, so that all of our hardware can work on a 64 bit OS. Porting the entire application over to 64 bit will take longer.

Some DAW apps take advantage of this already and enjoy remarkable performance gains as a result.

I would be curious where you're hearing this and what you're seeing.

Do you see this as an opportunity to address RTAS performance issues

There's more to that than a 32 or 64 bit app or OS. And, yes, we are doing things to improve this, but they're independent of the 64bit question.

[Bentley Ferrari]

DigiTechSupport--thanks for weighing in. Knowing now that this is a high priority is much more than I knew this morning. As for performance on 64 bit architecture, Sonar has that capability. They started a few years ago making Sonar operational on the Windows 64 beta program. From what I read on their website, some of their execs were skeptical about the gains that could be had, but were pleasantly surprised when they saw the real world gains. I could probably find some relevant links and post them, but I think they're pretty easily found in a Google search. It's been a while, but I'll take a look.

[Bentley Ferrari]

Here are a couple of links re: 64 bit OS and performance benefits. Cakewalk has problems doing this in Windows if you look at reports about Sonar closely, but they initially reported a 30% performance bump.

http://digitalproducer.digitalmedian...e.jsp?id=30309

http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/whitepaper.asp

ALSO SIGNIFICANT:

1.) Kontakt 64 bit Processing--Native Instruments have been working on a Kontakt update (3.5) that will take advantage of a 64bit OS, primarily so it can address large amounts of memory. NI discusses this freely in its website and forum, and indicates that the update will be released free to current owners of Kontakt 3. This is huge, and it's what sampler users have been hoping for for a long time--to be able to load large blocks of sample data into instantly accessible, pop and click free RAM, rather than be constrained by disk streaming. Samplers are supposed to be one particularly powerful example of where a 64bit OS really delivers. It would be great to be able to use Kontakt at this level as a plug-in, but the host would have to be 64bit compatible as well. I would love to be able to use Structure like this.

2.) Hyperthreading. At this point it looks like Snow Leopard, which will extend 64bit processing support to its kernel and most of its user apps, is where most of the upside is. For example, Snow Leopard will include something called Grand Central Dispatch that moves the serious multiprocessor usage coding to the kernel so developers don't have to struggle with it. The multi-threading issues will largely be offloaded from the developers to Apple's OS. That's good news for RTAS development, isn't it? If it's easier for developers in general to deal with multiple processor usage under Snow leopard, I would think it would be easier for Digidesign as well. That's the theory. Damn, that's exciting! And that's not even mentioning OpenCL, which allows developers to go to the GPUs on video cards for any type of processing. Finally!

So this, I hope, gives you a better idea why I pose the question.

[studiom]

[QUOTE=Bentley Ferrari;1362399]Here are a couple of links re: 64 bit OS and performance benefits. Cakewalk has problems doing this in Windows if you look at reports about Sonar closely, but they initially reported a 30% performance bump.

http://digitalproducer.digitalmedian...e.jsp?id=30309

http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/whitepaper.asp

ALSO SIGNIFICANT:

1.) Kontakt 64 bit Processing--Native Instruments have been working on a Kontakt update (3.5) that will take advantage of a 64bit OS, primarily so it can address large amounts of memory. NI discusses this freely in its website and forum, and indicates that the update will be released free to current owners of Kontakt 3. This is huge, and it's what sampler users have been hoping for for a long time--to be able to load large blocks of sample data into instantly accessible, pop and click free RAM, rather than be constrained by disk streaming. Samplers are supposed to be one particularly powerful example of where a 64bit OS really delivers. It would be great to be able to use Kontakt at this level as a plug-in, but the host would have to be 64bit compatible as well. I would love to be able to use Structure like this.

Kontakt - Can't wait for some 64bit NI crashes!