MIDI Set-up for Roland TD-3 Drum Module?

[vivaknievel]

Hello, everyone...

Usually, I am able to record a MIDI keyboard controller using Reason/ReWire, setting up Aux and MIDI tracks in Pro Tools. However, this time I'm using a Roland TD-3 drum module... I want to use my electronic drum kit to record straight into a Pro Tools, but am having trouble getting it to work. Have even tried getting it to record into Reason and then rewire into ProTools, but that doesn't work either... I know I'm missing something simple. I've been at this for half a day, including reading manuals, trial and error, searching Google and the Digi Answerbase - I still don't have enough information to make this work.

Is there anyone out there with experience with drum triggers or something similar that can help me, in layman's terms? (even though I have used keyboard controllers, MIDI is still fairly new to me). What steps do I need to take in order to record my drum kit straight into MIDI tracks in ProTools? How many tracks, what settings do I need, how to get each drum trigger on its own individual track, etc? I don't necessarily want to use Reason's sounds, but instead, the drum module's internal sounds...

I have:
Mac OS X 10.3
Pro Tools LE 6.9
MBox - original version
Midiman MIDISport 2x2 USB Audio Interface (using 2x2 Port A - In and Out)
Electronic Drum Kit with Roland TD-3 Module (manual says it uses "Channel 10")
Reason 2.5

Thank you for any help you can give...

[globaleric]

Basically I think what you'll need for the drums is only one MIDI track triggering all instruments of the module. Then, the audio signals (individual outs) of the module will be recorded as separate audio tracks back to ProTools.
So roughly you'll do the following:

1. Route the MIDI drum track via the MIDIMan's out to the TD-3 using the correct channel (10 makes sense). Don't forget AMS (OS X's Audio MIDI Setup)

2. While creating the drum arrangement, you may just monitoring the TD-3's stereo outputs. Use some external mixer for blending those with the MBOX outputs. Or then connect the TD-3's stereo outs to the MBOX inputs and monitor the module via a temporary (record-enabled) audio stereo track.

3. Once the drum arrangement is completed, start recording the TD-3's individual outputs to separate PT mono audio tracks. That's unfortunately a bit tedious with a MBOX, as you can only record two outputs/instruments at once - which means you'll need to record all the drumkit instruments in several passes. Time to think about a 002R now

4. Finally, mute/disable the drums MIDI track and start mixing or completing the arrangement with further instrument tracks. Should a minor change in the drum arrangement still be required at this point, you may find it easier to cut/copy&paste audio data using the grid now instead of editing the MIDI track and recording the affected track again.

[vivaknievel]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I will try this out and let ya know how it works out for me.

Have a good one and thanks again...

[vivaknievel]

Thanks again for the help.

It still doesn't work for me... again, I'm fairly new to this type of MIDI use, so I don't think I understand some of the steps in between what you've explained. It appears that something's being left out on my end, and I'm not sure what it is.

Following your tips... all that I've ended up with is the same thing I had before: an Aux track which shows the level of the drum module... but nothing on the MIDI track whatsoever.

I don't know what to check in AMS besides what I've already done, and I don't know what inputs and outputs to assign to the individual tracks themselves. Everytime I've changed something in the AMS, I close ProTools and reopen to make sure the saved information shows up... but I still don't know what to select.

I'm not a great enough drum player to be able to just record audio straight through, which is why I wanted to be able to use the MIDI aspects. I didn't think it would be this complicated. hahaha

Thank you for trying. I just think I'm missing some steps somewhere.

[vivaknievel]

After more trial and error, I retraced my steps after figuring out what I needed to know. So no one else has to go through what I went through... all the steps are written below, in clear terms to help beginners set up their drum modules to record as MIDI into ProTools LE with MBox.

1. On Drum Module (TD-3), the unit defaults to Channel 10. This is fine.

2. Connect 1/4" cords to the L and R outputs of the drum module into the audio inputs of the MBox.

3. Connect MIDI cables to the MIDI In and Out jacks on the drum module. Connect the In cord to the Port A (or B) Out on the MIDI Interface (Midiman 2x2) and connect the Out cord to the Port A (or B) In on the MIDI Interface.

4. Make sure the button on the MIDI Interface is pushed *in* to USB. Pushing it out to "Midi Thru" prevents the unit from acting as an interface.

5. In ProTools, create an Aux stereo track, and a MIDI track.

6. Go into Setups > Edit MIDI Studio Setup > MIDI Devices. In the Audio MIDI Setup window, you should see your audio interface as a device with the correct number of Ins and Outs (the arrows). If not, create one by clicking Add Device, put in device name. Do nothing in Properties. In Ports, make sure there's a Port A and Port B with 1 Midi In and 1 Midi out on both. Click Apply.

7. Add devices for your drum module and another called "DrumPad", with one IN and one Out. But in Properties, click the General Midi box, and Apply.

8. In the Audio MIDI Setup, click the arrow going into the drum module and drag it towards the OUT arrow of Interface icon (make sure it's to the correct port that your actual hardware is connected to). For DrumPad, drag from the OUT arrow, to the In arrow of the Interface.

9. Close the window, and making sure you save your ProTools session.

10. In the MIDI Menu, select "MIDI Thru" and then go into "Input Devices". Make sure that the input is enabled for both the Interface and the Drum Pad and click Okay. (for some reason, the Interface Port I'm actually using doesn't show up, and when I tried the opposite one, same thing happened, so I guess it's fine)

11. Quit ProTools and re-open the session, to make sure all your AMS changes can be recognized.

12. Turn up the volume on your Aux track, and press the demo on your drum module just to make sure sound is coming through and the levels can be seen. Make sure the volume and line/mic inputs on the MBox are at the right levels.

12. On the MIDI track, go to the Input, where it normally says "All"... you should see the Drum Pad in there... select it and "All Channels".

12. Below it, is your output. You should have the option for your drum module, select channel 10.

13. Stop your drum machine demo, and try hitting the pads. You should see some motion in the levels of your MIDI track.

14. If you do see levels, you should be able to now record all of your drum kit straight into a MIDI ProTools session. Make sure you're in grid mode, to help yourself stay locked in to the session.

As for recording the drum kit parts individually (snare, bass drum, toms, etc), the TD-3 only has two audio line outputs, not outputs for each indidivual kit piece. As the kind person who posted said, with an MBox only, there are further limitations, without having a more expensive set up... Still...there are a number of more complicated ways to go about assigning individual drum kit parts to separate channels, but the way to get individual drum tracks for mixing purposes, which is less of a headache for me personally... here's a good method for my fellow MIDI novices...

When you're fininished with your main drum MIDI track, with all the parts finalized... Duplicate the MIDI track for each drum part you wish to have separated..., then create mono and aux tracks for EACH drum part. In each of the duplicate MIDI tracks, delete all parts EXCEPT for one, delete the parts you don't need on the track. When finished, you should have separate MIDI drum tracks for each part. Using the aux and audio tracks, record each of these MIDI tracks to an audio track... and voila! Separate drum tracks.

To save yourself headaches in the future... do all of this one time... then save the session as "MIDI Drum Template" or something. For future songs, all you'll need to do is open up the template, make sure everything's connected right and plugged in, and then add your other instruments/vocals, as normal.

[globaleric]

Glad to see you figured it out
Just a few additional comments:

Ok, I thought you'd create the drum arrangements directly from PT just by using the mouse, a MIDI keyboard or some template rhythms from other sources. Didn't think of using the obvious TD-3 pads though... In this case you might also have a look into the MIDI input quantize functions, depending on your drummer skills of course

Also my bad that I thought from the TD-3 picture on the Roland Website that i.e. the "Tom3" jack is an individual output... it's obviously the pad input!

But even in this case I don't think it's necessary to split up the MIDI track for separating the drum instruments:
Should you find some way to mute individual instruments WITHIN the TD-3 (i.e. instrument volume temporarily set to 0), you still could be able to record the TD-3 instruments individually from one single MIDI track in several passes by using the stereo outputs while panning the 2 instruments in question to hard left/right! Of course, you might end up with some "compromise": Recording just i.e. Kick and Snare on separate mono tracks as mentioned above, then only the toms in stereo (on a stereo track), and finally hihat/cymbals in stereo.

Good Luck!