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  #1  
Old 10-06-2023, 03:57 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Hi there,

so I've now read some contradicting (and partially confusing) info about a setup running HDn, 8x8x8, SYNC HD all genlocked to video hardware with the Atmos renderer looped in.

#1: Dolby says the renderer uses the clock provided by PT if you set playback engine in PT to the dolby bridge and route all audio like that to the renderer and from there to the interface.
Problem is: PT ignores the genlocked clocking whenever the playback engine is NOT HDx so audio and video would be flywheeling just like an entirely un-clocked setup ingnoring the SYNC HD etc.

#2: Other people have recommended to stick to the HDn engine and use Aux I/O to the renderer and back into PT and then to the monitoring.

Question I have is (since AUX I/O has questionable clocking as far as I know): Will scenario #2 will at least maintain genlocked sync to picture when monitoring through the renderer? Or is a genlocked scenario only possible using an entirely separate second rig making is a choice between 99$ for just the renderer or 25000$ for a full blown HDX3 rig just to be able to work against picture 100% sync?
(or is there another setup I'm not aware of that would maintain 100% genlocked frame edge sync during playback?)

Many thanks!

Frank
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2023, 05:15 AM
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Farhoof Farhoof is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Although I cannot answer your question, I think the problem is solved within a few months when the Atmos renderer is built into Protools so you don't need the Dolby Atmos Bridge as the playback engine anymore. As long as you don't need the renderer calibration or surround arrays the external renderer offers you will be good to go.

I am not 100% sure about the playback engine though. I saw it at IBC this year but I didn't check that part.

If it doesn't work out another option would be a mtrx2 and IO to the renderer on the same machine using madi. But you will need the mtrx2 to begin with, 2 hdx cards for 128 IO, an extra digilink option card, an extra madi option card (or go dante), and a simple madi interface (rme madiface) used as an IO for the renderer. It's not 25k, but not 99,- either, somewhere in between I guess. Mtrx studio is not sufficient enough with 64 IO from the native card.

Wait a few months before spending a lot of cash.
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Old 10-06-2023, 05:22 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
Although I cannot answer your question, I think the problem is solved within a few months when the Atmos renderer is built into Protools so you don't need the Dolby Atmos Bridge as the playback engine anymore. As long as you don't need the renderer calibration or surround arrays the external renderer offers you will be good to go.

I am not 100% sure about the playback engine though. I saw it at IBC this year but I didn't check that part.

If it doesn't work out another option would be a mtrx2 and IO to the renderer on the same machine using madi. But you will need the mtrx2 to begin with, 2 hdx cards for 128 IO, an extra digilink option card, an extra madi option card (or go dante), and a simple madi interface (rme madiface) used as an IO for the renderer. It's not 25k, but not 99,- either, somewhere in between I guess. Mtrx studio is not sufficient enough with 64 IO from the native card.

Wait a few months before spending a lot of cash.
Thanks for chiming in!
Yeah I read the rumor about the integrated renderer but someone here on the DUC posted that it will be a very limited integration and will probably not replace the stand alone renderer.
But I do wonder how other people are currently doing it in this kind of scenario.
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Old 10-06-2023, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Thanks for chiming in!
Yeah I read the rumor about the integrated renderer but someone here on the DUC posted that it will be a very limited integration and will probably not replace the stand alone renderer.
But I do wonder how other people are currently doing it in this kind of scenario.
That someone was probably me :)
It is indeed limited compared to the external renderer but for editing in smaller setups (up to 9.1.6) it's all you need. I would even say it's preferred due to it's simplicity.
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Old 10-06-2023, 07:21 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Are you planning on recording in the renderer? This isn’t really necessary now that you can offline bounce an ADM file in Pro Tools.

If you’re not recording you can utilize the Aux IO to/From the Renderer.

You’re probably even safe using Aux IO even if you are recording into the renderer and send TC using the Dolby Generator.
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Old 10-06-2023, 08:20 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Thank you both. No need to record back in but I guess I need to go back into PT to get to my speakers (via the PT interface) and keep the audio AND video locked to the GEN10.

The essence of the question is:

How do I connect to the Renderer on the same Mac without losing frame-edge sync.

So if I understand you correctly, AUX I/O to renderer and back is the way to go? So in the I/O setup under aux I/O:

out = 130 outs to Dolby audio bridge
in = ProTools audio bride with a width that works for me

then the incoming signals routed to the physical outs of my interface.

Frank.
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Old 10-06-2023, 08:24 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
That someone was probably me :)
It is indeed limited compared to the external renderer but for editing in smaller setups (up to 9.1.6) it's all you need. I would even say it's preferred due to it's simplicity.
That would be nice once we have it.
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Old 10-06-2023, 08:27 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Than you both. No need to record back in but I guess I need to go back into PT to get to my speakers (via the PT interface) and keep the audio AND video locked to the GEN10.

The essence of the question is:

How do I connect to the Renderer on the same Mac without losing frame-edge sync (which I assume means using HDn as the playback engine).

So if I understand you correctly, AUX I/O to renderer and back is the way to go?

Frank.
Hi Frank,

Yes, if you want to keep the system locked to the Sync then Aux IO is the path to/from Renderer keeping your playback engine to HDX or HD Native. Aux IO will also lock to Pro Tools sync internally. No need for Dolby LTC if you're just monitoring through the Renderer.

If you were using a MTRX, MTRX 2, or MTRX Studio with Thunderbolt option, you could us the thunderbolt and DADMan to route to/from Renderer.

Not sure of your PT Version but if you're running at least 2023.6 you can utilize the wider 7.1.4 channel width or wider for you monitoring path from the Renderer. You can also send back live re-renders for metering purposes.

I would measure the round trip latency back into protools via Aux IO and compensate accordingly. This can be done using Catchin Sync app. The Renderer itself adds in a certain amount processing latency.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2023, 08:37 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Great, thanks! I'll do that. I have a SyncOne2 and on the road this awesome new app which does live sync checking:
https://synqr.app/

A dialogue editor friend wrote it.

It's cool as you don't have to capture and scroll around. It does it live.

F.
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2023, 08:58 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Genlock with HDn and Dolby Renderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Great, thanks! I'll do that. I have a SyncOne2 and on the road this awesome new app which does live sync checking:
https://synqr.app/

A dialogue editor friend wrote it.

It's cool as you don't have to capture and scroll around. It does it live.

F.
This looks interesting. Thanks for sharing
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