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  #1  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:53 AM
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Delta Music Belgium Delta Music Belgium is offline
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Default Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

This is my experience with my 6-core 3.33 GHz Westmere + 24 GB RAM + Lion 10.7.2 + Magma PE6R4-I + PT HD6 Accel PCI (Core card is revision K):

- starting with the 64-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 hang on 'Initialising hardware (DSI)', need to do Force Quit of Pro Tools HD

- starting with the 32-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 work fine

(on a Mac Pro (Mid 2010) the default setting of Lion 10.7.2 is to start with the 64-bit kernel, more info about starting with the 32-bit kernel: see here)

I asked Magma about this: they say it is a Pro Tools related issue, due to the fact that the Pro Tools HD PCI cards are being detected by the PE6R4-I. Most likely I will have to swap the rev. K Core card.

I opened a support case (case 01785880) with Avid Support on this matter and the answer is that my setup should work with the 64-bit kernel, I need to try with a different Core card (not revision K) and see what happens.

Now, I did some searching on the internet about the 32-bit kernel/64-bit kernel and this what I found and understand about it:

- a lot of soft- and hardware does not work with the 64-bit kernel, switching to the 32-bit kernel makes everything works again. Companies need to write new software or new drivers for their hardware to make it work with the 64-bit kernel

- the 64-bit kernel is only important if you have more then 32 GB RAM in your Mac Pro + it allows applications to use more then 4 GB RAM

- there is no difference in speed between the 32-bit kernel and the 64-bit kernel (I did some benchmark tests and this seems to be confirmed)

My questions:

1) are there users that run Lion 10.7.2 with the 64-bit kernel, have PCIe cards or PCI cards with a PE6R4 or PE6R4-I + PTH HD 9.0.6 or PT HD 10.0.0 and have no problems?

2) is there any reason why I should try to resolve this problem and work with the 64-bit kernel, while with the 32-bit kernel my system works fine?

Thanks!
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Marc Schellekens
Delta Music Belgium - Dolby Atmos Music Studio
https://www.deltamusic.be

Mac Pro (Mid 2012) 3.33 GHz 6-core - 48 GB RAM - macOS 13.6.2 (with OCLP 1.3) - Magma EB7 - PT HDX3 - Pro Tools Ultimate - Avid HD I/O 16x16 (x2) - Avid HD I/O 16x16 Digital - Digidesign 192 I/O - Digidesign 192D I/O (x3) - Avid SYNC HD - Apogee Big Ben - Apogee Rosetta 200 - Avid S3 - Slate RAVEN MTi2 (x2) - iConnectivity mioXL (x4) - Genelec ‘The Ones’ 9.1.6 Dolby Atmos Music monitoring (AES/EBU) with 8341A (x5) + 8331A (x10) + 7360A (x2) + 9301B - Almost all available AAX-DSP plug-ins
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2011, 10:33 AM
RTFM RTFM is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Quote:
2) is there any reason why I should try to resolve this problem and work with the 64-bit kernel, while with the 32-bit kernel my system works fine?
Personally, I wouldn't bother - stick to the 32 bit kernel. I haven't found any real detriments to doing so and there are plenty of benefits, like things working properly and the other things you mentioned.

Until everything is truly 64 bit there's no real need to go with the 64 bit kernel. We're in a 'transition phase' with this yet, so just go with what works.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Firechild Firechild is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

As a matter of fact it seems there is a lot of confusion outthere about 32 and 64 bit kernel.

First of all it has nothing to do whether your applications are running 64 bit or not. Even DAW or software developers are confusing users in "surveys" like "Are you running a 64 bit OS". Are you running 10.5/10.6/10.7 , yes you are no matter what kernel you use.

Second. The ONLY advantage when running 64 bit kernel is to be able to use MORE than 32 GB of RAM:

So, don´t use 64 bit kernel if you don´t have more than 32 GB of RAM.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Hi,

I'm running 32 bit OS

most of my software and hardware was developed on and for 32 bit.


Chris
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PT MAC Troubleshooting... http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=54888

Producer, Engineer,
UKmastering Mixing & Mastering
Blinders_Columbia top 40 UK album charts
Slow Readers Club Joy Of The Return #9 UK album charts

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PT10.3.10 Mountain Lion HD6 accel Magma PE6R4 D Command 32 MacPro 12 Core 3.46ghz UAD-2 Octo x2. Manley Vari-Mu, Manley Massive Passive, SSL VHD, ADL600, Grove Tubes ViPre, Tube-Tech CL-1B. Hafler TRM active monitoring.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2011, 01:16 AM
Firechild Firechild is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crizdee View Post
Hi,

I'm running 32 bit OS

most of my software and hardware was developed on and for 32 bit.


Chris
NOOOOO, that´s excactly what I´m talking about! You are running a 64 bit OS, maybe with a 32 bit kernel. But again kernel mode has NOTHING do to if you can run 64 bit OS or 64 bit apps. You don´t need 64 bit kernel to fully utilize 64 bit applications. At the moment 64 bit kernel is only if you have more than 32GB RAM.

OS X has been 64 bit since Tiger. Windows OS is a different story. As soon the OS can see more than 4 Gb RAM ( 3.2 ) the OS is 64 bit.

Read more on 64 bit vs 64 bit kernel here.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1423...rd_64_bit.html
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2011, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

I found my system to be more stable overall in 64knl.
I work post composition and sound design (Stereo and SMPTE surround)
64 bit kernel MacPro 12 core 12GB ram OS 10.7.2
Magma with HD3 Accel (Core Rev. J, Accel's Rev F, All firmware Rom's: A)

3-Displays via ATI Radeon HD 5870 (19" - 27" - 19")
External OWC Raid 5 for Video, Separate SATA drives for SFX, Smple libs, Audio sessions, Boot.

Primary apps;
PT's HD 9.0.6, Melodyne studio/single (standalone), Reason 6 (32bit)
Notion 3 & Finale 12

I also found this true for 2008 MBP OS 10.7.2 PT's 10 regular with FW-800 OWC audio drive.

All back-up/archives via Drag n drop or Superduper.
Disk catalog maker database.
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2011, 08:03 AM
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crizdee crizdee is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
NOOOOO, that´s excactly what I´m talking about! You are running a 64 bit OS, maybe with a 32 bit kernel. But again kernel mode has NOTHING do to if you can run 64 bit OS or 64 bit apps. You don´t need 64 bit kernel to fully utilize 64 bit applications. At the moment 64 bit kernel is only if you have more than 32GB RAM.

OS X has been 64 bit since Tiger. Windows OS is a different story. As soon the OS can see more than 4 Gb RAM ( 3.2 ) the OS is 64 bit.

Read more on 64 bit vs 64 bit kernel here.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1423...rd_64_bit.html
Hi,

I never said i wasn't running a 64 bit computer. but i'm running it with a 32 bit kernel so the operating software is functioning at 32 bit.

Some of the products i own were developed on 32 bit operating systems and simply don't work on 64 bit kernel. Tascam firewire interface/Belkin Nostromo/USB keyboard/Lazer optical mouse drivers to name a few.

Main point is there's no reason to run 64 bit kernel yet! 32 bit does everything and is compatible with everything.



Chris
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PT MAC Troubleshooting... http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=54888

Producer, Engineer,
UKmastering Mixing & Mastering
Blinders_Columbia top 40 UK album charts
Slow Readers Club Joy Of The Return #9 UK album charts

www.ukmastering.com


PT10.3.10 Mountain Lion HD6 accel Magma PE6R4 D Command 32 MacPro 12 Core 3.46ghz UAD-2 Octo x2. Manley Vari-Mu, Manley Massive Passive, SSL VHD, ADL600, Grove Tubes ViPre, Tube-Tech CL-1B. Hafler TRM active monitoring.
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Firechild Firechild is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Chris, yes I know that but your OS is still operating with all 64 bit features. But regarding Pro Tools yes, it is still a 32 bit app and that is a big bottleneck but has nothing do to with kernel mode, but when using the new 64 bit disc cash feature you will "save" some RAM that is now outside Pro Tools. So when looking on the same song on 9 vs 10 with disc cash you should see that the version 10 song will use less Pro Tools RAM.
Running Logic 64 bit with 32 or 64 bit kernel doesn´t matter. Exactly the same features and performance.
I will now say this for the last time. Booting with 64 bit kernel is actually needed ONLY for them with more than 32 Gb of RAM. Has NOTHING to do if your applications utilize full 64 bit featurers or not. There is however in theory a minor speed boost when reading from RAM with 64 bit kernel but to measure that speed boost you need to do very deep artificial benchmark tests which is not like our common test tools as cinebench or geek bench. They will show identical results on both kernel modes. Over and out.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2011, 10:35 AM
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Delta Music Belgium Delta Music Belgium is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

UPDATE:

This was my experience with my 6-core 3.33 GHz Westmere + 24 GB RAM + Lion 10.7.2 + Magma PE6R4-I + PT HD6 Accel PCI (Core card PCI is 'revision K'):

- starting with the 64-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 hang on 'Initialising hardware (DSI)', need to do Force Quit of Pro Tools HD

- starting with the 32-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 work fine

Today I had the chance to do some tests with a Core card PCI 'revision D' and the results are clear: starting with the 64-bit kernel, PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 also work fine.

I hope Avid Audio Technical Support will replace my 'revision K' card free of charge (case 01785880)
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Marc Schellekens
Delta Music Belgium - Dolby Atmos Music Studio
https://www.deltamusic.be

Mac Pro (Mid 2012) 3.33 GHz 6-core - 48 GB RAM - macOS 13.6.2 (with OCLP 1.3) - Magma EB7 - PT HDX3 - Pro Tools Ultimate - Avid HD I/O 16x16 (x2) - Avid HD I/O 16x16 Digital - Digidesign 192 I/O - Digidesign 192D I/O (x3) - Avid SYNC HD - Apogee Big Ben - Apogee Rosetta 200 - Avid S3 - Slate RAVEN MTi2 (x2) - iConnectivity mioXL (x4) - Genelec ‘The Ones’ 9.1.6 Dolby Atmos Music monitoring (AES/EBU) with 8341A (x5) + 8331A (x10) + 7360A (x2) + 9301B - Almost all available AAX-DSP plug-ins
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2012, 06:59 PM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: Lion + 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel, what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Music Belgium View Post
UPDATE:

This was my experience with my 6-core 3.33 GHz Westmere + 24 GB RAM + Lion 10.7.2 + Magma PE6R4-I + PT HD6 Accel PCI (Core card PCI is 'revision K'):

- starting with the 64-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 hang on 'Initialising hardware (DSI)', need to do Force Quit of Pro Tools HD

- starting with the 32-bit kernel: PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 work fine

Today I had the chance to do some tests with a Core card PCI 'revision D' and the results are clear: starting with the 64-bit kernel, PT HD 9.0.6 and PT HD 10.0.0 also work fine.

I hope Avid Audio Technical Support will replace my 'revision K' card free of charge (case 01785880)
I have found that this particular PE6R4-related hang sometimes happens when I change boot partitions between a 64 bit and a 32 bit one. It can be eliminated by zapping the PRAM/NVRAM after you have first booted into a partition with the kernel set to a different depth.

dc
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