How To Re-amp with Eleven Rack and Pro Tools HD?

[Jared_TL]

Originally Posted by sunburst79

Not to hijack the thread but can you possibly post a comprehensive guide for using the 11Rack with the 002 and 003? Since we cant clock though AES.

I have not figured out how to get Eleven Rack to sync to an incoming AES signal... I figured I was doing something wrong or missing a setting (or had a bad cable, or any other number of things...). Is it actually not possible?

Right now it says "External Clock: Valid," but the clock source is Internal 48k. I have 11R set up with AES out into a 192 digital card and AES in from that same card - so it is a loop. But it doesn't appear to be getting sync... and I was getting a nasty scratchy noise (until I switched on SRC on a tip from this thread).

So, am I doing something wrong? Should I be able to get it to lock to incoming AES. Note... nothing is selectable in the Digital/Clock Input screen.

Thanks,
Jared

[TDigi]

If you are connected to the computer via USB, then you'll need to use the Eleven Rack control panel(Windows)/system preferences pane (OS X) when you are using an HD system, in order to change the clock source to "AES/EBU". This should set you up for syncing to the incoming AES signal. We had to disallow clock changes within the box when you are connected to the host computer, to prevent changing sample rates while Pro Tools is running (especially when Eleven Rack is your main interface).

-Toby Dunn
Avid/Digi engineering

[roberts]

Thanks Toby - Big help it seems that very important detail in well hidden in the manual.

[acmost]

Originally Posted by TDigi

The Pro Tools HD architecture is not set up to easily integrate audio streams from USB or Firewire (the audio clocking is done thru the TDM system along with peripherals such as the 96 I/O, so it is somewhat difficult to use another audio driver to properly synchronize the audio streams coming in from a different source such as USB).-Toby

Hi, thanks for the replys.

For lack of a better word... will there be a "FIX" for this for us HD users? It's a nice piece but kind of a drag that it's this limited for HD users.

[Spidouz]

Originally Posted by TDigi

The Pro Tools HD architecture is not set up to easily integrate audio streams from USB or Firewire (the audio clocking is done thru the TDM system along with peripherals such as the 96 I/O, so it is somewhat difficult to use another audio driver to properly synchronize the audio streams coming in from a different source such as USB). Good luck, I hope you are enjoying the Eleven Rack!

-Toby

Hi Toby,

Now that PT HD Native has been released, there's lot of chance that it doesn't use TDM system for audio clocking since there's no TDM at all...

Is there then a tiny chance to have an easier way to integrate 11R to a 003R or HD Rig, by using the USB port only?

Thanks,
Phil

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by TDigi

The Pro Tools HD architecture is not set up to easily integrate audio streams from USB or Firewire (the audio clocking is done thru the TDM system along with peripherals such as the 96 I/O, so it is somewhat difficult to use another audio driver to properly synchronize the audio streams coming in from a different source such as USB).

Originally Posted by Spidouz

Now that PT HD Native has been released, there's lot of chance that it doesn't use TDM system for audio clocking since there's no TDM at all...

Is there then a tiny chance to have an easier way to integrate 11R to a 003R or HD Rig, by using the USB port only?

Re-Amping via virtual audio cable (USB) with HD Native seems the intuitive way. Any news on this subject?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by gives

Hi Toby,
Am I understanding that you have to have a Digital connection from the 11R to the Avid IO Interface, which drives my room here to make this Reampling work for an existing clean guitar part? I can do either AES EBU or spdif. I only have now Analog Main outs hooked up since the AES did not work. The 11R is to far away to have the interface connect digitally at the moment. I did try moving it and connecting SPDIF, but still did not work from a Protools session be reamped thru the 11R. Have never been successful doing this. Sort of giving up at this point. Not sure, but I think it might be an IO issue or possibly something else. I am running PT 10.2 and just have set up a session in my room her that is from a Eleven Template to simplify things. Working on a project and just want to make this work with existing clean guitars I recorded already.
I have a 5.1 room also, so I may need to kill some of the paths in the IO and have, but seems to still not be getting any sound.

I am not sure why you are following up to the years old thread which is about a technical discussion on a USB feature that does not exist and you do not need.

No you do not need a digital (AES/EBU or S/PDIF) connection to reamp, but doing so avoids unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. not that I have tried it with an Eleven Rack but with AES/EBU you should be able to get lengths like 100'. How large is your studio? Are you using a proper 110 ohm AES/EBU cable (not a random mic cable)?

All you need is in the Eleven Rack User Guide chapter 6 section titled "Using Eleven Rack with an Existing Pro Tools System". Read that not the later "Re-Amping" section in the later chapter about using the Eleven Rack as a Pro Tools interface (because you are not).

To overview the user guide instructions: If you just want to get going reamping through an Eleven Rack with a HD interface is easy. No different in principle to a real rig or any other outboard box. You just output your dry signal on the interface and connect that output to the Eleven Rack and then connect back the Eleven Rack to the interface inputs. You can use analog or digital either way, your choice. But digital would be nicer-- but make sure you have clocking set up and the same clock rate on both sides. You just set the Eleven Rack rig input (under the Eleven Rack user options) to whatever input in the Eleven Rack you are driving with the dry signal (e.g. Line in L or digital R or whatever you want) -- do not set it to 'reamp'--that is the USB input you are not using in this case, only when the Eleven Rack is the interface. And you set up the appropriate Eleven Rack output into the interface. If you want to use a (stereo) digital return for your wet signal you need to set up the digital output to mirror the main outs' all under the Eleven Rack "user options".

You may need to sit down and draw a connection between all the boxes showing the signal flow you want then confirm the cabling and settings in Pro Tools and in the eleven rack follow this.

As with any debugging confirm things work one thing at a time. E.g. First step is probably setup the Eleven Rack with a guitar input And just play the guitar and confirm you can record the wet signal through your HD interface. Then drive the Eleven Rack rig input with a dry signal from Pro Tools --do the input meters move in the Eleven Rack? Do you hear a wet signal if you connect headphones to the Eleven Rack? And so on...

If you want help here you need to describe exactly what you are doing, what debug steps you have done, maybe even post that connection diagram online.

Darryl

[gives]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I am not sure why you are following up to the years old thread which is about a technical discussion on a USB feature that does not exist and you do not need.

No you do not need a digital (AES/EBU or S/PDIF) connection to reamp, but doing so avoids unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion. not that I have tried it with an Eleven Rack but with AES/EBU you should be able to get lengths like 100'. How large is your studio? Are you using a proper 110 ohm AES/EBU cable (not a random mic cable)?

All you need is in the Eleven Rack User Guide chapter 6 section titled "Using Eleven Rack with an Existing Pro Tools System". Read that not the later "Re-Amping" section in the later chapter about using the Eleven Rack as a Pro Tools interface (because you are not).

To overview the user guide instructions: If you just want to get going reamping through an Eleven Rack with a HD interface is easy. No different in principle to a real rig or any other outboard box. You just output your dry signal on the interface and connect that output to the Eleven Rack and then connect back the Eleven Rack to the interface inputs. You can use analog or digital either way, your choice. But digital would be nicer-- but make sure you have clocking set up and the same clock rate on both sides. You just set the Eleven Rack rig input (under the Eleven Rack user options) to whatever input in the Eleven Rack you are driving with the dry signal (e.g. Line in L or digital R or whatever you want) -- do not set it to 'reamp'--that is the USB input you are not using in this case, only when the Eleven Rack is the interface. And you set up the appropriate Eleven Rack output into the interface. If you want to use a (stereo) digital return for your wet signal you need to set up the digital output to mirror the main outs' all under the Eleven Rack "user options".

You may need to sit down and draw a connection between all the boxes showing the signal flow you want then confirm the cabling and settings in Pro Tools and in the eleven rack follow this.

As with any debugging confirm things work one thing at a time. E.g. First step is probably setup the Eleven Rack with a guitar input And just play the guitar and confirm you can record the wet signal through your HD interface. Then drive the Eleven Rack rig input with a dry signal from Pro Tools --do the input meters move in the Eleven Rack? Do you hear a wet signal if you connect headphones to the Eleven Rack? And so on...

If you want help here you need to describe exactly what you are doing, what debug steps you have done, maybe even post that connection diagram online.

Darryl

Hi Daryl,

Well, first off I followed up on a years old thread because it seemed to have the information about the Eleven Rack and it seemed like a good place to start. Also there was a knowledgable group here in the discussion. Rather than bore you with my very busy schedule as a film composer and sound designer, I'll just say that from what I have read and seen online that the the way to interface with the Eleven Rack to Another Protools interface such as the new Avid IO which I have was AES or SPDIF as explained on Mg 69 of the Eleven Rack Manual. Of course you can connect via an open pair of analog line inputs on your interface as well, however the songs are from a band that I was helping out over the holidays and really wanted to reamp the parts they put down with my Eleven Rack sounds. Gt Rig 5 seems to work fine too, but I am really anxious to do it thru the 11R. After reading pages 68-71 in the Eleven manual this seemed to be the way to do it. I think it's probably just some sort of IO thing possibly as I have a very large control room and several other recording rooms here and need to just have my tech in after the holidays and pay him to do it for me. So thanks for at least trying to figure out my lame attempt here, but I have been so busy I really have not had time to go into the wiring anymore as the room were just set up in the new spaces in Nov and so a lot I am not aware of yet-:)
I'll just move on to an alternative for this favor for a friend I am doing with another option.
Regards, G

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by gives

Hi Daryl,

Well, first off I followed up on a years old thread because it seemed to have the information about the Eleven Rack and it seemed like a good place to start. Also there was a knowledgable group here in the discussion. Rather than bore you with my very busy schedule as a film composer and sound designer, I'll just say that from what I have read and seen online that the the way to interface with the Eleven Rack to Another Protools interface such as the new Avid IO which I have was AES or SPDIF as explained on Mg 69 of the Eleven Rack Manual. Of course you can connect via an open pair of analog line inputs on your interface as well, however the songs are from a band that I was helping out over the holidays and really wanted to reamp the parts they put down with my Eleven Rack sounds. Gt Rig 5 seems to work fine too, but I am really anxious to do it thru the 11R. After reading pages 68-71 in the Eleven manual this seemed to be the way to do it. I think it's probably just some sort of IO thing possibly as I have a very large control room and several other recording rooms here and need to just have my tech in after the holidays and pay him to do it for me. So thanks for at least trying to figure out my lame attempt here, but I have been so busy I really have not had time to go into the wiring anymore as the room were just set up in the new spaces in Nov and so a lot I am not aware of yet-:)
I'll just move on to an alternative for this favor for a friend I am doing with another option.
Regards, G

pp 68-71 in the v 9 manual are the right instructions to follow, so I dont' know what you are doing wrong.

What you want to do is *easy* to do. Just don't get confused about reamping via USB -- that is what the thread you posted to was about, it is not a supported feature, not needed and for what you are after just an academic distraction. If you think about reamping with the Eleven Rack like you would use any outboard reamping setup it is easy, just output the dry signal into the Eleven Rack and input the wet signal back from it. The only complexity is --

1. Go into the Eleven Rack user options to set the rig input to where your dry signal is coming in.
2. If you want to use the digital outputs setting that up correctly (e.g. likely to "mirror analog" if you want a wet stereo signal) in User Options.
3. Ensure you have clocking set up properly if reamping via digital. (e.g. I would normally clock the Eleven Rack from its digital in, again set from the Eleven Rack User Options).

In the Eleven Rack front panel rig view at the very end of the rig there are level meters, a handy way of seeing if you are getting any dry signal input or outputting a wet signal. A very handy debug tool. Headphones connected to the Eleven Rack can also help.

This is so easy it takes me minutes to set up, and I just follow though the signal path in my head and plug stuff together and its dead easy. The hard part is remembering to set the rig input back to guitar when I'm finished.

Again the main thing is do NOT follow the part in the manual about USB reamping. Don't select "reamp" as an input in the Eleven Rack, that does NOT apply here. Avid should have called that "USB Reamp".

Darryl

[gives]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

pp 68-71 in the v 9 manual are the right instructions to follow, so I dont' know what you are doing wrong.

What you want to do is *easy* to do. Just don't get confused about reamping via USB -- that is what the thread you posted to was about, it is not a supported feature, not needed and for what you are after just an academic distraction. If you think about reamping with the Eleven Rack like you would use any outboard reamping setup it is easy, just output the dry signal into the Eleven Rack and input the wet signal back from it. The only complexity is --

1. Go into the Eleven Rack user options to set the rig input to where your dry signal is coming in.
2. If you want to use the digital outputs setting that up correctly (e.g. likely to "mirror analog" if you want a wet stereo signal) in User Options.
3. Ensure you have clocking set up properly if reamping via digital. (e.g. I would normally clock the Eleven Rack from its digital in, again set from the Eleven Rack User Options).

In the Eleven Rack front panel rig view at the very end of the rig there are level meters, a handy way of seeing if you are getting any dry signal input or outputting a wet signal. A very handy debug tool. Headphones connected to the Eleven Rack can also help.

This is so easy it takes me minutes to set up, and I just follow though the signal path in my head and plug stuff together and its dead easy. The hard part is remembering to set the rig input back to guitar when I'm finished.

Again the main thing is do NOT follow the part in the manual about USB reamping. Don't select "reamp" as an input in the Eleven Rack, that does NOT apply here. Avid should have called that "USB Reamp".

Darryl

Thank man! This makes sense to me.. I'll sleep on it and try it in the am.
Sorry about the USB thing.. Must have mis typed or something.. WAs just trying to figure out the rest of the setup with AES vs Analog. I'll keep digging. G