PT9 Stock Plugins

[spenner]

My introduction to composing and recording music was Cubase 1 on a Pentium 4 with 256 MB RAM, then on to PT LE 6. I have never worked on an analog console, never patched outboard gear, or used hardware comps, eq's etc. Someone like me does not know what I'm missing because I never worked in an analog environment. I do, however, know how to select and record the appropriate sounds, then use stock plugs (if necessary) to get as close as possible to the sound I've heard on my favorite old records.

Questions: Do engineers buy the 3rd party hardware fx plugins simply because of familiarity, and they sound just like the hardware the engineer used? Or are they that superior to stock plugins, even though it is all a digital environment? The point of this post is not to suggest that hardware or software is better, and I totally understand using great outboard gear for recording. However, once it is ITB, is it necessary for example to spend so much on a Waves API comp when all I need to do is control transients. Also, this is not an affordable issue, but rather "necessity" considering how far stock plugins have come over the years.

[nst7]

In most cases, 3rd party plugins have a specific sound or features that people want for their specific song or style. Especially in the case of vintage models. An API compressor plugin will sound very different from the stock Digi plugins.

In many cases, many 3rd party plugs are superior than stock plugins. But even top mixers will still sometimes use the stock plugins if if fits what they're doing at the moment.

Don't feel that you have to buy a bunch of 3rd party plugs right now, but also realize it's not just people's imagination that 3rd party plugs sound different or better.

[getz76]

Part of your premise is true... familiar is often equated to good. It is the reason that most producers in most applications requiring a Fender bass, or a Les Paul or a Stratocaster. Not because those instruments are better, but because they are familiar.

nst7 summed up the other reasons...

[daeron80]

The only way to really get a proper answer that question is to hear the difference for yourself. There are certain pieces of gear that do certain things exceptionally well. That's why that gear has been ported to the software realm, as it were. If you need a lot of brightening, but need to keep it satiny smooth, that's what Neve EQ does. You can't push the high end hard with the stock EQ, or most 3rd party ones, for that matter; it gets harsh and weird. If you need more air and openness on top without it sounding all that much brighter, that's what Pultec EQ does, like nothing else. If you need to level out bass guitar or vocals in a way that's warm and fat and silky with little noticeable pumping, that's what the LA-2A does, like nothing else. If you want EQ that's tight, punchy, and clear from bottom to top, that's what API does, like nothing else. If you want a detailed, shimmery reverb on real acoustic piano, don't reach for D-verb; you need a good convolution type or else Lexicon or something fairly expensive.

I use the stock plugs mostly for utility work, like notching out a nasty ring from a bad room, flattening out a spike, and putting a touch of ambience on things. The only exception for me is the gate. I love the stock gate with its fully customizable sidechain EQs and the look-ahead feature. Pretty hard to beat that, IMO.

[spenner]

Thanks, these are all great answers. daeron80 the examples really helped too. I guess if a bunch of pros are finding the sound and familiarity in, for example Waves or McDSP plugins, then that does say a lot.

Is it safe to say that if every memory of outboard fx gear was erased (how they sound and what they do), and we started over with the more expensive 3rd party and PT Stock, engineers would still chose 3rd party because the sound and what they do?

[Dism]

Originally Posted by spenner

Is it safe to say that if every memory of outboard fx gear was erased (how they sound and what they do), and we started over with the more expensive 3rd party and PT Stock, engineers would still chose 3rd party because the sound and what they do?

It really depends on the application and the engineer.

Some swear by the thousands of dollars worth of plugins they have... while some grammy winning engineers/producers stick with dverb and EQIII.

It's not to say that the stock plugs are good or bad... they just don't have any particular character. 3rd party plugs are often emulated and designed to have a characteristic sound that some people like and some people don't. It's like picking any other piece of gear, really. Some swear by a $300 microphone, some swear by a $3000 microphone. It's easy to get lost in the vast options available, but in the end it just comes down to what you like and how you use it.

[daeron80]

Some brands have demos, either fully functional for a few days, or somewhat crippled, like a gentle noise-burst every 30 seconds or something. Worth trying them out and see what you like.

[Park Seward]

I like that Massy lets you demo fully optional plugs. You just can't save set-ups.

[spenner]

Originally Posted by Dism

It really depends on the application and the engineer.

Some swear by the thousands of dollars worth of plugins they have... while some grammy winning engineers/producers stick with dverb and EQIII.

It's not to say that the stock plugs are good or bad... they just don't have any particular character. 3rd party plugs are often emulated and designed to have a characteristic sound that some people like and some people don't. It's like picking any other piece of gear, really. Some swear by a $300 microphone, some swear by a $3000 microphone. It's easy to get lost in the vast options available, but in the end it just comes down to what you like and how you use it.

The character part is where my inexperience comes in as I have no prior hardware reference of character to know what I prefer. This may be bad but my reference is stock plugins that I learn to get the most out of and actually like using. I know the great analog/hardware are shaking their heads , but I think my story is more common today than not and may be completely normal in 20 years. Perhaps the 3rd party hardware emulated plugins play an important roll in keeping the hardware character alive for the future mixers that will not have a notable (or any) outboard reference. Good example: I have the SSL Bundle that I only bought because I've seen pros that worked on an SSL rave about them (mind you I have never worked on an SSL). To me the SSL plugins sound muddy and I prefer the clean sound of the PT plugins.

Originally Posted by daeron80

Some brands have demos, either fully functional for a few days, or somewhat crippled, like a gentle noise-burst every 30 seconds or something. Worth trying them out and see what you like.

Good idea. This will at least let me know what other sounds are out there. I must admit I shy away from demos because I don't like having to clean up afterward. My demo - purchase ratio is horrible. But it would be a cool experiment regarding this thread.

[sunburst79]

My advice would be to try the Massey stuff. Also you can find the Digi/BF optional plugs on ebay and the DUC really affordably and most of them are pretty good in their own right. The Pultec bundle, the Classic Compressor Bundle etc are all good alternative plugs in my opinion. Big fan of Slightly Rude Compressor.

For cleaning up tracks a lot of folks do use the EQIII and DynamicsIII plugs. They are great when you not looking for a character plug.

Demo Demo Demo.