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  #1  
Old 11-28-2018, 01:32 AM
Joschka Bender Joschka Bender is offline
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Default -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

hey everyone,

i have an odd situation that i need your help with. i found out, that my protools is recording late. i mainly track vocals in pro tools and always had the feeling that it's a little off, but never got around to really check. now i did, and the outcome is this: (all of the stuff written below you can also see in the attached screenshot)

first i created a click track and routed it to an internal pro tools bus. i recorded it with a buffer size set to 128 and then set to 1024. both times the recorded click was perfectly on the grid.

then i routed that same click track out of a line input of my apollo, which i connected to a line input of my apollo and recorded that. with a buffer size of 128 there was already a noticeable delay in the recording (it recorded around 240 samples late). i set the buffer size to 1024 and the outcome was even worse (around 1200 samples late).

this was all done with delay compensation enganged (although this also should make no difference because looking at the mixer there is a green zero on each channel, so no day comp needed.)

i also fiddled around with the internal delay compensation of the apollo, which was initially set to 'off'. putting it to 'short' or 'medium' made it even worse, as you can see in the attached screenshot.

i then did the same thing with ableton, recorded the internal ableton click there (also going out of apollo's line output and recording the line input). i did it with a 128 buffer and with a 1024 buffer, and both times it was perfectly on the grid. i put those tracks into the pt session for the screenshot, too.

so: what is the problem here? pt would have to behave just like ableton, right?
first off, the buffer size shouldn't make any difference to where pt is recording the audio to. pt has to take the buffer size into account, right? there are no other audio tracks in the whole session than these, there is no busses and no plugins. there were also no plugins in the apollo console open. the problem occurs everytime, a restart or anything like that doesn't change the behavior of pt.
i also tried all the above with low latency monitoring off and on, the outcome was the same.

this is driving me crazy, as there is nothing i can think of anymore to get rid of that problem.

do you guys maybe have an idea what it could be? i am thankful for every tip:)

-J-
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File Type: jpg Bildschirmfoto 2018-11-27 um 15.10.28.jpg (50.5 KB, 0 views)
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2018, 01:33 AM
Joschka Bender Joschka Bender is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

somehow it didn't add the signature with my specs, so here:

Mac Pro (Early 2009) with El Capitan 10.11.6
2,66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC
Macintosh SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB

UA Apollo Duo SF
Pro Tools LE 12.7.1
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2018, 01:43 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

What is "SF" in "UA Apollo Duo SF" Mk I or II? Firewire? Thunderbolt?

---
(edit April 2023: ouch deleted incorrect info that has been sitting here for years)

ADC corrects plugin latencies, it should not affect anything you are seeing where there are no plugins.

There will always be convertor delays adding some latencies... that will be corrected by Pro Tools regardless of the ADC setting.

All versions of Pro Tools correct for recording latencies... Pro Tools Ultimate/Standard/Studio/Artist/Intro... they correct according to the latency reported by the CoreAudio or ASIO interface when using non-DigiLink interfaces. Or I should say "should correct for recording latency" since there is the known bug where checking "ignore errors" causes incorrect time line placement of recordings (with or without "ADC" being enabled).

There are also a known bug with H/W inserts that can cause very large (2K or 4K or so samples) false incorrect ADC corrections if they are used with Low Latency Monitoring. While Pro Tools latency and ADC is a buggy mess, it is usually possible to get stuff working OK if you avoid the known problems.

---

Do you have "extra buffering" disabled in the the UAD console? Make sure ignore errors is not checked in Pro Tools.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 04-06-2023 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:14 AM
Joschka Bender Joschka Bender is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

thanks for your quick answer. will try again with unchecked "ignore errors" and the extra buffering setting!

with sf i meant silverface, sorry for the confusion. i use it with firewire.

of course there are some converter delays, but still it's weird that it works just fine with ableton..

alright, will try your ideas and get back with what i find out asap!
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Mac Pro (Early 2009) with El Capitan 10.11.6
2,66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC
Macintosh SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB

UA Apollo Duo Silverface w/ Firewire
Pro Tools LE 12.7.1
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:00 AM
Joschka Bender Joschka Bender is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
What is "SF" in "UA Apollo Duo SF" Mk I or II? Firewire? Thunderbolt?

Make sure ignore errors is not checked in Pro Tools.
That did the trick! Thank you so, so much! Saved my day:)

But what is that for then? That makes it practically unusable with that option or not? Anyway, thanks a lot!
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Mac Pro (Early 2009) with El Capitan 10.11.6
2,66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC
Macintosh SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB

UA Apollo Duo Silverface w/ Firewire
Pro Tools LE 12.7.1
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2018, 04:33 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

Maybe Ableton has external hardware delay compensation?
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:01 AM
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

Just out of curiosity, does it do the same if you use a Send from the click track to the Apollo?
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:07 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joschka Bender View Post
That did the trick! Thank you so, so much! Saved my day:)

But what is that for then? That makes it practically unusable with that option or not? Anyway, thanks a lot!
The Pro Tools Reference Guide answers that question very well.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:09 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

Curious; are you working only in Pro Tools, or thru the UA mixer?
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:53 AM
Joschka Bender Joschka Bender is offline
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Default Re: -Help- Pro Tools is recording late

I use the consoles unison preamps from time to time while tracking.. or how do you mean? And also i go out of PT through the virtual channel of the console so that i have quick access to the playback level in comparison to what I am currently tracking.
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Mac Pro (Early 2009) with El Capitan 10.11.6
2,66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC
Macintosh SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB

UA Apollo Duo Silverface w/ Firewire
Pro Tools LE 12.7.1
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