Digi please adress this Error, finally!!! 7.4 ?

[Danny Caccavo]

Hey!

with 7.4.cs3 the automation error (if you change automation mode after a volume pass in trim mode)
ought to be removed.
BUT:
1. it is still present in large sessions with a lot of automation!
2. the error (press play and if you have a volume fader touched at the same time on the C24 - lets say -1 dB the automation is SOMETIMES written relatively on the TOTAL track!!!
3. session performance under 7.4 is extremely slow...
4. I´ve been reporting the automation errors since 2 years now and it gets annoying!

does anyone of you have these errors?
yes, Frank you already made the points with 7.4.

please!
Mubeau

PT.7.4cs3, 2x2,3Ghz G5, 2,5 GB RAM....

Mubeau, we need a few details to flesh out the recipe you've provided.

1) What automation mode do you start the automation pass with?
2) Do you change automation modes on the fly after actually writing automation? If so, what mode do you change to?
3) Is trim mode on or off at the start of the pass?
4) At what point do you leave "trim" mode? (while writing, while rolling, after stop)
5) What is your trim "coalesce" preference set to? ("always coalesce," "coalesce after exiting trim," etc)
6) Are you using "latch prime in stop" mode? (it doesn't seem so, but we had to ask)

Thanks for your patience...

Danny Caccavo
Product Manager
Digidesign

[Mubeau]

Dear Danny!

Thanks for your answer first!
good to know that digi is listening.

1. I have "touch mode" and trim activated.
2. Yes. During a final mixing session (thats my job , I flip between modes on several channels often without stopping protools and adjust here and there.
Most often I start with touch mode and trim activated for "slight changes", then on a channel i would sometimes go into latch or "latch/touch" mode (i rarely use "write" mode), depending on the
incoming files which need slight volume adjustments...
as far as I can say by now this error only happens when trim mode is activated.
3. yes or no
4. as said in 2.
5. coalesce is "after every pass"
6. latch prime in stop deactivated.
7. Thinning is to "some".


What I found out:
* This error occurs more often in large sessions. (means more than 120min film, 60 tracks min.),
* The problems increased if "pre roll" is activated.
* What I can also tell you: This problem may also occur, when I have a finger on a channelfader (touch/trim activated), not in "O" position and press "start"...then this value is written relatively to the entire track.
And I guess here´s the main problem, since during a mixing session fast start / stops and changes
may also happen .

This error has nothing to do with the "lost" automation gain in Waves Eqs which I already stated
even earlier...

And if asked, please look at the overall PT performance in 7.4... as also stated by many other users

thanks!

Mubeau

[thierryd]

Hi Mubeau,

a few thoughts:
PT doesn't "like" it at all, when you touch a controller's (C24, D-Control, or whatever) fader, just before hitting play. In fact normally that value isn't "seen" and you'll have to retouch the fader to get it to follow your moves.
I have learned to take this into account during mixing, but of course it drags down the mix tempo a bit. A fellow engineer had the same issue when he was using a D-Command to ride recording levels during a Foley session. When hitting the fader just too early starting play, the fade down wouldn't be seen by PT.
It would be great if Digi could change something in the logic of this, but I can imagine this is not easy to program.

When mixing I also always try to remember to have Pre-roll off (sometimes I forget when I'm editing a music cut with pre-roll during mixing and forget to swich it off again for mixing). As during pre-roll fader touches aren't recorded. As you say during mixing I also often start and stop. When pre-roll is 2 seconds and I have prepared lots of faders and plug-ins with latch prime, then when I hit play and stop before the pre-roll is finished (it happens , all latch primed controls are lost. Annoying!

As for the performance issues of 7.4 I haven't switched my main mix system yet, after reading all the horror stories here. This system is a G5 dual 2.7 with OS 10.4.11, PT 7.3.1cs6, old 12slot expansion chassis with HDcore, HD accel and 3 HD process cards. The bottleneck I run into with this system is PCI bus overloading (probably due to the expansion chassis, I'm not a fan of expansion chassis).
I've now installed a second system in parallel (I'm mixing a 5.1 tv-series at this moment), with the above. As this is a new 8core Intel mac with PT 7.4.1 (can't go lower with that system) I'm curious what the automation response will be. I'll report back here.

Greetings,

Thierry

Dear Danny!

What I found out:
* This error occurs more often in large sessions. (means more than 120min film, 60 tracks min.),
* The problems increased if "pre roll" is activated.
* What I can also tell you: This problem may also occur, when I have a finger on a channelfader (touch/trim activated), not in "O" position and press "start"...then this value is written relatively to the entire track.
And I guess here´s the main problem, since during a mixing session fast start / stops and changes
may also happen .

This error has nothing to do with the "lost" automation gain in Waves Eqs which I already stated
even earlier...

And if asked, please look at the overall PT performance in 7.4... as also stated by many other users

thanks!

Mubeau

[Mubeau]

hi Thierry!

sorry for getting back late... have been to Norway...
Thanks for the reply...
Well, the "start stop" issue i mention happens rarely, but it does.
btw: I also avoid holding one button and press "play", but it might happen,
you know how TV post schedules ...

please let me know, if performance increased a lot, cause
Protools´ performance and response is really "untight"....

Best regards,
Mubeau