Beat Detective: Possible to bar/beat identify several triggers at once?

[tlindaas]

Double clicking a trigger in Beat Detective brings up the Identify Trigger dialog, where you can define the trigger's exact wanted bar/beat location. Beat Detective remembers this location even if you change the tempo radically.

Having Beat Detective remember where the trigger belongs in the groove is such a time saver when conforming the clips. The separated clips just snap to the correct place without any fuss, even when they are way off the grid (as when no click was used when recording).

However, this is not the case if you don't double click the trigger first. If you don't double click, and then change the tempo/remove the tempo changes, the triggers will try to keep up with the new grid, and will consequently snap to the new grid lines when conforming. So the groove will be a mess.

This is why I ask, is there a way to have Beat Detective identify the current bar/beat location of all its triggers in one go? So they will snap to the correct place in the groove also when a new tempo is set?

I like to first use a lot of tempo changes in order to get the grid lines to line up with the transients. It helps a lot to see visually where the beats and sub-beats most likely belong in the grid. When this is done, Beat Detective usually assigns the correct bar/beat value to the triggers, but alas forget about those the second I delete the tempo changes, or alter the overall tempo. So I have to double click every trigger to make them "stick". This is such a waste of time. Hope there is a better way..

[Stig Eliassen]

If I understand you correctly, you can do this by:

1. map the tempo to the performance
2. open BD to capture, analyze and create triggers
3. select all triggers, and double-click one of them to "stick" it

Now you can delete/adjust the tempo map, and BD will remember trigger locations when you re-select the clip. Mind you, I only did a quick test here, but it seemed to work nicely.

[tlindaas]

How do you select multiple beat triggers? You are talking about the purple lines right?

It seems to me that when you select something when Beat Detective is active, it is really parts of the clip itself you select. The beat triggers will show themselves as you select the relevant parts of the clip (around the transients), and the triggers will change their assigned bar/beat position as you extend or diminish the selection. (You have to tick off Show Trigger Time).

I don't think it is possible to select multiple beat triggers at once. But I've found that if I only define the tempo every bar, and only define one bar/beat position per bar, it is usually enough to get an error free beat after I delete all the tempo changes.

[Stig Eliassen]

Yes, the purple lines.

What I found was that simply selecting the clip with BD active, and defining one of the later triggers, was enough. I then deleted the tempo map, and increased the tempo significantly. Opened BD again, and it remembered the trigger locations.

[tlindaas]

Sorry, I've tried it, it doesn't work. Maybe you didn't actually conform the clips?

You can also see where the clips will go only by reselecting the clip, if you have enabled Show Trigger Time. See the attached screen shots. For me only the triggers that are double clicked actually stick. In this case I doubled clicked the one at bar eight, and only this trigger sticked.

[tlindaas]

Sorry the file sized allowed make it impossible to understand the pictures

[Stig Eliassen]

You can use online image hosting services like Imageshack or Photobucket, and post the links here. I believe those are free.

[tlindaas]

I got the pictures within the allowed limit by zooming in on the essentials.

The work process:

1. Make a short recording, just snapping fingers randomly.
2. Make tempo changes that line the grid up with the finger snapping transients.
3. Bar/beat define just one of the triggers, I chose trigger 5 out of a total of 8, for intended placement at bar 5, beat 1.
4. Delete tempo changes (or deactive conductor track). All displayed trigger times, except number 5, will change.
5. Deselect, then reselect the clip (so that all triggers are selected). The trigger times, except number 5, change again.
6. Slice and conform the clip to verify that the individual hits move to their displayed bar/beat position.

[Stig Eliassen]

Ok, now I've tested the process, and yes; I can confirm that behavior here too.

However, I can't wrap my head around working that way, and I mean no disrespect with that. I just don't see how BD could function that way, at least not efficiently. In your example, the tempo fluctuates a lot, and is down to half the new/target tempo of 120 BPM.

Maybe I don't get it, so hopefully someone else will.

[tlindaas]

The wild/unrealistic tempo changes are just to clarify how Beat Detective actually works.

In my limited experience, the "tempo change" way of working is very efficient when the drummer fluctuates a lot. I tempo change and bar/beat define at every bar, not at every beat. I get the tempo changes created not by clicking the plus sign every bar, but drawing a line with the density set to one bar. So all of them are created at once.

I've tried several times to avoid having to line up the grid to the transients, and work directly with the destined tempo, but I feel severly slowed down by having to enter so many trigger times manually (analytically listening and typing in the bar/beat locations, in addition to double clicking and pressing enter). It also seem to be the case that when the grid is way off the transients, Beat Detective requires much more baby sitting in regard to the sub-beats: It is not enough to bar/beat define only the ones at every bar, you have to define several of the sub-beats as well.

If you know a better way, please share Remember, this is for situations where the drummer don't use a click and fluctuates a lot (10-15 BPM).