Who out there is upgrading to PT10HD, but staying on HD/TDM cards?

[lillloyd]

I'm currently on PT9HD.

Am I correct in thinking that, if I keep upgrade to PT10HD while keeping my HD/TDM cards (as opposed to upgrading quickly to HDX), many of the advantages of PT10HD will be nixed? Things like the 256 voice count, the 32 bit floating engine, the 16K ADC limit, and support for the AAX format are only for HDX + PT10HD (*not* HD/TDM + PTHD), right?

Just wondering if there are users out there who've taken the PT10HD plunge already, who would have done it even if they weren't planning on moving to HDX when it becomes available.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and opinions on this.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by lillloyd

I'm currently on PT9HD.

Am I correct in thinking that, if I keep upgrade to PT10HD while keeping my HD/TDM cards (as opposed to upgrading quickly to HDX), many of the advantages of PT10HD will be nixed? Things like the 256 voice count, the 32 bit floating engine, the 16K ADC limit, and support for the AAX format are only for HDX + PT10HD (*not* HD/TDM + PTHD), right?

Just wondering if there are users out there who've taken the PT10HD plunge already, who would have done it even if they weren't planning on moving to HDX when it becomes available.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and opinions on this.

Hi,

You are pretty much correct already, all new HDX only features are absent yes.

HD can record 32 bit float audio and can use AAX "native" plugins.

Lots of users on PT 10 HD

Chris

[JFreak]

Hi.

I'm currently waiting on HD10 and couldn't be happier about it. Whatever PT11 brings, PT10 will be the best TDM ever and well worth it.

Things like improved voice count, improved ADC and support, and AAX-DSP are obviously HDX card hardware features and not available for old TDM cards, but hey...

Currently TDM systems are better than HDX because there is more TDM plug support compared to AAX. As I have let myself understand, PT10 is a transitional product and it may very well be that PT11 is not happening this year, or not even next year, who knows when. It's going to be a long wait. Even AVID has not released everything as AAX -- not even AAX native -- so I would be very surprised if most 3rd parties would be ready at the end of 2012.

"old" systems do benefit from 32bit float format, if you do VI's heavily.
"old" systems do benefit from Disk Cache if you have HD license
"old" systems do benefit from clip cache and realtime fades

There's plenty of benefits in upgrading to PT10, and as it also supports the AAX-native on TDM cards it's a great test bed for the new plugs.

Just how I see it...

[lillloyd]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Hi.

I'm currently waiting on HD10 and couldn't be happier about it. Whatever PT11 brings, PT10 will be the best TDM ever and well worth it.

Things like improved voice count, improved ADC and support, and AAX-DSP are obviously HDX card hardware features and not available for old TDM cards, but hey...

Currently TDM systems are better than HDX because there is more TDM plug support compared to AAX. As I have let myself understand, PT10 is a transitional product and it may very well be that PT11 is not happening this year, or not even next year, who knows when. It's going to be a long wait. Even AVID has not released everything as AAX -- not even AAX native -- so I would be very surprised if most 3rd parties would be ready at the end of 2012.

"old" systems do benefit from 32bit float format, if you do VI's heavily.
"old" systems do benefit from Disk Cache if you have HD license
"old" systems do benefit from clip cache and realtime fades

There's plenty of benefits in upgrading to PT10, and as it also supports the AAX-native on TDM cards it's a great test bed for the new plugs.

Just how I see it...

OK so that last point I'm a bit confused about, i.e. plugin compability.

Will my Cranesong Phoenix v.1 run under PT10HD with TDM (not HDX) cards?
If I upgrade to v.2 of Phoenix, which is AAX compatible, will that version run under TDM?

(I'm asking specifically about Phoenix here, but it could be about any TDM plug running under PT10HD with an older HD/TDM card rather than HDX.)

[lillloyd]

Originally Posted by crizdee

Hi,

You are pretty much correct already, all new HDX only features are absent yes.

HD can record 32 bit float audio and can use AAX "native" plugins.

Lots of users on PT 10 HD

Chris

OK now I'm really confused...I thought you defaulted back to 48 bit fixed for PT10 HD if you were running it with a TDM/HD card, rather than an HDX card?

[lillloyd]

OK I understand better now.

Cranesong Phoenix v1 (and any other TDM-based plugs) still run under PT10HD with the older TDM cards.

Using TDM cards keeps you limited to 192 voices and 4K ADC under PT10HD.

However using TDM cards under PT10HD still gives you access to 32 bit float, disk caching, and some other features.

Thanks guys for your responses!

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by lillloyd

OK now I'm really confused...I thought you defaulted back to 48 bit fixed for PT10 HD if you were running it with a TDM/HD card, rather than an HDX card?

Yes.

HD cards have a 48-bit fixed-point mixer as always. That mixer is pretty much perfect, and the only thing missing would be delivering pure 48bit from one plug to another. Instead, the signal is downgraded to 24 bit fixed and the additional dither "smears" the sound a little, if you have very large number of plugins in your mixer.

HDX cards and Native systems use 64-bit floating-point mixer now. That mixer is better than HD mixer because it can deliver full 64-bits (correct me if I'm wrong) from one plugin to another. It is only downgraded to 24 bit fixed once the signal goes out to a DA converter.

But there's something you need to understand before you compare bits and pieces.

Recorded audio is 24-bit fixed when it comes from the AD converter. If you store it in 24-bit fixed or 32-bit float file, it does not make a difference. It is still the very same 24-bit fixed signal. Running a full 32-bit float session with a recorded audio is just stupid, because you're wasting hard drive capacity and performance. The extra 8-bit float is just zeros when you store fixed-point 24-bit audio.

But the VI's (which are not running on a TDM chip) are natively 32-bit float and storing those in 32-bit float file makes it possible to avoid extra dithering that should be done before storing the signal in a 24-bit file. That is available for all PT10 systems, whether TDM or HDX or Native. Benefits however come from storing the real plugin output, whicm avoids extra dithering.

I myself am not interested in the whole 32-bit float thing as I mostly deal with recorded audio. And 24-bit fixed gives me plenty of headroom so I'm more than fine with it

[panamajack]

Originally Posted by JFreak

...That mixer is better than HD mixer because it can deliver full 64-bits (correct me if I'm wrong) from one plugin to another....

I found a short explanation of why Avid has moved to the 32 bit float - 64 bit float mix setup in their Knowledge Base.

Q: Why did Avid switch from 24-bit processing/48-bit fixed summing to hardware that offers 32-bit floating-point processing/64-bit floating-point summing, and what does it mean for me?

A: There are several reasons for the transition. A 64-bit floating-point mix bus provides more than 1,000 dB of headroom, which is more than enough to handle the huge track counts that Pro Tools|HDX can deliver. Also, by moving the insert paths to a 32-bit floating-point format, Pro Tools|HDX offers much more dynamic range for plug-in processing, making it nearly impossible to clip the plug-ins, while also being able to handle greater than 24-bit audio file formats.

Many of you have told us that even with dual-precision plug-ins processing at 48-bit, the path between inserts on Pro Tools|HD was still limited to 24-bit — thus, limiting any gains. With Pro Tools|HDX, all data streams are maintained at full 32-bit floating point and then summed in the DSP mixer at 64 bits. Our beta customers told us that they could hear and appreciate the difference.

[ajv205]

Im on 10 HD now with my old Tdm cards. Basically , I mix 90 % native, and can overdub mid mix if necessary by switching to dsp plugs on the track I'm recording on. I don't need the extra power of the hdx cards and certainly cant justify the cost. I'm happy as is.