Mixing tecnique, smaller scale, bit / tweek heads please

[RobMacki]

set up:
d24, 2 vintage farms
888, 882
Waves Gold
Auto Tune
DINR
Mackie 16x8

Ok so I have a baby studio....but I have Genelec 1031s and Neumann u87.
Small but trying to be serious.

I mostly do radio shows, audio post and VO sessions. Lately I've had some interest from musician's who want to do demos or have me mix and master their songs in PT.

Here's the question.

Would I do better mixing within PT bouncing the mix in 24 bit to another session for mastering.
or
Mixing into sub groups (in PT) out to my Mackie and back into PT on a stereo track and import to a mastering session.

Will I get better separation and resolution mixing back through the Mackie or will I just loose a "generation"?

PS. I already use +L1 on master fader for mixing and mastering sessions.

[RobMacki]

I suppose I could just try it and find out for myself.
Is there a “way”? Some times I find my self mixing with my “head”
instead of my “ears”. NOT what I THINK but how it SOUNDS!

Thoughts?

Or do I just need therapy? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Felix]

i would bounce to disk 24/44.1 (src while still 24 bit.) then create a session for mastering the 2 tk. then bounce that with the L1 + POW or L1+ if you prefer set to 16bit.
if your mixes are good, this should sound great.
if you had a Cranesong Hedd or great convertors to a Fatso or an L2, etc. then going out the box could be better.

[RobMacki]

cool. thanks. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[RobMacki]

Hey Felix,
Are you from Portland?
Do you John and Jason at FusionPost?
Donny from SuperDigital?
Doug Dyer from SoundThinking?
or KIV @ RumbleFish?

[icouldntbeleiveit]

Right On Brother you said

"Some times I find my self mixing with my “head”
instead of my “ears”. NOT what I THINK but how it SOUNDS!"

Your not crazy to think that. In here I would say more than half mix with their heads. It makes me laugh/annoyed when I see posts like "Can someone give me the preset they use with Channel strip for vox". Thats mixing with your head and the very same dudes that ask then in another post quite happily splash out advice on how to mix.

First thing, you need to really just use your ears and forget that digital is supposed to sound better, forget that its cleaner, forget that you have automation, forget you have this so called excellent plugin etc etc. Know what I mean. None of the above makes any difference to the end result.

In your case I would definitely try subgouping pairs to your Mackie. Drums, Keys, Vox etc all subgrouped to stereo pairs. You will notice immediately that the sound takes on a more 'real' feel. You may have to tweak the eq on the board. Dont worry about it, just do it if you need to. Then do the mix completely internally. Decide which one you prefer (remember and lose the thoughts that come into your head like "this is the completely digital mix". when the 2 mixes are down burn them onto CD (you will need some one there and listen 5-10 times and take note of which one you like the best)

If you cant decide or both are equal then you have your answer. Either way will be fine. If one is resoundingly on top each time then the answer is obvious.

[RobMacki]

Thanks Dude
I thought of replying to another thread about presets....I'm trying to get away from having a preconceived idea of what it should sound rather than hearing what it already is. I've gone from using templates for every track to mixing with no plugs until it sounds good...then plugs. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[icouldntbeleiveit]

Yes thats the idea.

Here are some tips on mixing (not conclusive)

1. Mix as much as you can without adding eq (you already do this good). Wait until the last moment or you cant bear it any longer then start adding plugs. You might find that you dont need as much EQ and FX doing it this way. Less is best [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . I learned this while watching some big names mixing stuff and it was incerdible to watch how the mix sounded quite bland with no eq and fx and then BAM a few FX and a little eq here and there and the mix was transformed. They would pick out the strongest elements of the track and they would be the ones that would get the full treatment. It does make sense and if you listen to just about any album you will usually hear about 2 or 3 things at the most that have had the 'Treatment'

2. when EQ'ing stuff dont solo the track while EQ'ing. What you hear in isolation is completely different to how it wil sound in the mix. Very important that one. Although in PT's I have to admit due to the difficulty in mixing I brike the rule many times through frustration really. Just couldnt get things to sit properly.

3. Dont use a different reverb for everything. Also dont use the same reverb for everything. Have about 3 reverbs setup at the most and that will usually be sufficient. The vocal reverb will also work on the keyboards. The mid sized room reverb for the drums will also work on something else. Dont forget that reverb is currently unfashionable [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . subtle delays are working better on things like vox these days (or nothing at all on vox)

4. Follow your gut instincts. Or have a reference CD and REFER to the CD a lot while mixing.

There are a lot more tips but they are the basics and most important imo.

Do try subgrouping to your desk btw.

[Dr. J]

Everything that has been said so far is excellent. I totally agree, that you need to experiment and decide with your own ears what sounds great.

I would however offer my $0.02, that doing anything possible to avoid a Mackie in the chain is the way to go. Most, even inexpensive, mic pre's sound waaay better than the Mackie. Obviously, everything costs $$'s but if you can afford it, pick up the best set of Pre-s you can and go into PT through those. You can still use the Mackie for monitoring until you can afford to get a DAW monitoring unit.

As far as mixing, you will get no better "separation" going out and in than just bouncing over to a stereo track for mastering.
Likewise you will not lose a "generation" either, but the Mackie pre's and channel strip, and EQ if you use it, will color the sound. (not what I would do) If I were going to deliberately color my sound outside of PT it would be through a Neve or other really great sounding mic pre.

[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]