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  #1  
Old 01-28-2012, 10:01 PM
Samscasa Samscasa is offline
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Default Eleven rack stand alone editor

Would be really, really cool. Think there is any chance for this?
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:03 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

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Originally Posted by Samscasa View Post
Would be really, really cool. Think there is any chance for this?
It has been asked for only about a few thousand times. The problem is there is no indication that Avid is going to develop this after all these requests however. Let's keep asking and keep our hope up.
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2012, 01:30 AM
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zedhed zedhed is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

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Originally Posted by Samscasa View Post
Would be really, really cool. Think there is any chance for this?
Vote for it here;

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/idea...3&pageOffset=5
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2012, 10:36 AM
lspaulsp lspaulsp is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, NO!
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2012, 03:13 PM
moff moff is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Many of us have voiced some disappointment in Avid and their products, and eluded to changing to another product. But really, we all bought 11Rs, and Avid's already got our money, so why should they care if a percentage of us stop using it, and move to something else? It's really just more expense for us, no skin off their nose...

Let's look at this in perspective... Avid is a manufacturer of high-end audio and video production products. Things like MBox, Fast Track, and Eleven Rack are low-cost "consumer-grade" items, and represent only a very small portion of their business. Within that small portion, guitar and the Eleven Rack is a sliver. From a business perspective, while the 11R is a great product, it represents such a small portion of Avid's revenue that if it went away to morrow, it wouldn't even show up as a blip on the general leger.

OTOH, Line 6' entire business was built on modelling amps and FX, and Fractal is built around an amp\FX modeller, a MIDI controller, and a couple of powered wedges. They NEED to keep their products updated, and they NEED to be responsive to customer wishes/demands, otherwise they're out of business.

So we can go ahead and get frustrated, but in the end, would you rather play the 11R or a POD?
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2012, 05:37 PM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

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Originally Posted by moff View Post
You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Many of us have voiced some disappointment in Avid and their products, and eluded to changing to another product. But really, we all bought 11Rs, and Avid's already got our money, so why should they care if a percentage of us stop using it, and move to something else? It's really just more expense for us, no skin off their nose...

Let's look at this in perspective... Avid is a manufacturer of high-end audio and video production products. Things like MBox, Fast Track, and Eleven Rack are low-cost "consumer-grade" items, and represent only a very small portion of their business. Within that small portion, guitar and the Eleven Rack is a sliver. From a business perspective, while the 11R is a great product, it represents such a small portion of Avid's revenue that if it went away to morrow, it wouldn't even show up as a blip on the general leger.

OTOH, Line 6' entire business was built on modelling amps and FX, and Fractal is built around an amp\FX modeller, a MIDI controller, and a couple of powered wedges. They NEED to keep their products updated, and they NEED to be responsive to customer wishes/demands, otherwise they're out of business.

So we can go ahead and get frustrated, but in the end, would you rather play the 11R or a POD?

Why? Because Avid should be interested in FUTURE profitability. Not past. My future dollar will be going elsewhere unless I percieve better value for their products vis-a-vis the competition. The competition has really upped the game, from both a value and absolute quality perspective. And while I would rather play the current eleven rack than the POD, if this trend persists it won't be long before I jump ship.

As for the importance of consumer/pro-sumer revenues to Avid's bottom line, think of it this way. When it comes to hardware perhaps margins may or may not be comparable, due the variable cost involved (physical components)

but when it comes to software, the bulk of the cost involved is R&D and perhaps after-sales service. Avid has already made the switch to keep after-sales service down by making users pay for it. That means most of the cost involved is fixed cost (i.e. the marginal cost for each additional copy sold is close to $0). There is a sweetspot where they can maximize profit there, and it certainly means segmented pricing for pro and consumer markets. The Eleven Rack introduced me to Pro Tools. I happily bought the upgrade from PT8 to PT9, felt it was a fair deal. And then the ridiculous pricing for the upgrade from PT9 to PT10 destroyed much of the goodwill that they had managed to build up with me. Likely outcome? Moving on next generation, looking for better alternatives. Impact? My dollar goes elsewhere. Individually I do no presume to make much of a difference... but I suspect I far from the only one who feels this way.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2012, 06:05 PM
moff moff is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqlw View Post
Why? Because Avid should be interested in FUTURE profitability. Not past. My future dollar will be going elsewhere unless I percieve better value for their products vis-a-vis the competition. The competition has really upped the game, from both a value and absolute quality perspective. And while I would rather play the current eleven rack than the POD, if this trend persists it won't be long before I jump ship.

As for the importance of consumer/pro-sumer revenues to Avid's bottom line, think of it this way. When it comes to hardware perhaps margins may or may not be comparable, due the variable cost involved (physical components)

but when it comes to software, the bulk of the cost involved is R&D and perhaps after-sales service. Avid has already made the switch to keep after-sales service down by making users pay for it. That means most of the cost involved is fixed cost (i.e. the marginal cost for each additional copy sold is close to $0). There is a sweetspot where they can maximize profit there, and it certainly means segmented pricing for pro and consumer markets. The Eleven Rack introduced me to Pro Tools. I happily bought the upgrade from PT8 to PT9, felt it was a fair deal. And then the ridiculous pricing for the upgrade from PT9 to PT10 destroyed much of the goodwill that they had managed to build up with me. Likely outcome? Moving on next generation, looking for better alternatives. Impact? My dollar goes elsewhere. Individually I do no presume to make much of a difference... but I suspect I far from the only one who feels this way.
But do ANY of us NEED Pro Tools 10? Did PT 9 or PTLE suddenly stop working? I would say no - none of us NEED it. We've all convinced ourselves that we want it, or that we're somehow entitled to it - so much so that we believe we need it, but the fact is, most of what many of us do could be accomplished on PTLE.

Certainly, a hobbyist demo-maker doesn't need PT10. Some of us may be pro musicians, maybe even semi-pro "engineers", and the more experience we gather, the more you'd think we'd need the full deal. In reality, we realize over time that we won't be tracking the next Grammy Award-winning CD in our living rooms using Pro Tools 10 on our MacBooks (unless you're a rap/hip hop guy who uses pre-mastered loops), and so our home\portable recording rigs are really scratchpads at best. And with that in mind, lots can be accomplished with the PTLE\PT9 that you already have.

If we DO get the opportunity to record a major-label album, it'll be at a "real" studio. And guess what? Even though some of us might be upset enough at Avid to decide not to buy Pro Tools in the future, it is in most of the major studios (and Logic has the remainder), and those studios spend BIG bucks on HD (HDX) and TDM systems, consoles, control surfaces, etc. The same goes for video production houses and the ISIS products. We, on the other hand do not spend big bucks, relatively speaking, and we're not likely to be in a position to do so. So once we weigh our spot in the marketplace against their core business, we see that a $500-$1000 customer is chump change, compared to the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars their "real" customers spend.

Sometimes I think we overestimate our importance. Our collective portion of Avid's business could go away tomorrow, and they'd never notice. Not only that, but we represent such a small drop in the revenue bucket that "future profitability" wouldn't notice if we all spontaneously combusted.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2012, 06:20 PM
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

Quote:
Originally Posted by moff View Post
You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Many of us have voiced some disappointment in Avid and their products, and eluded to changing to another product. But really, we all bought 11Rs, and Avid's already got our money, so why should they care if a percentage of us stop using it, and move to something else? It's really just more expense for us, no skin off their nose...

Let's look at this in perspective... Avid is a manufacturer of high-end audio and video production products. Things like MBox, Fast Track, and Eleven Rack are low-cost "consumer-grade" items, and represent only a very small portion of their business. Within that small portion, guitar and the Eleven Rack is a sliver. From a business perspective, while the 11R is a great product, it represents such a small portion of Avid's revenue that if it went away to morrow, it wouldn't even show up as a blip on the general leger.

OTOH, Line 6' entire business was built on modelling amps and FX, and Fractal is built around an amp\FX modeller, a MIDI controller, and a couple of powered wedges. They NEED to keep their products updated, and they NEED to be responsive to customer wishes/demands, otherwise they're out of business.

So we can go ahead and get frustrated, but in the end, would you rather play the 11R or a POD?
Yeah, we are exactly correct in that they got our money and they don't seem to care, and probably wouldn't notice if it slipped into another dimension, but, we are a small subsection of a greater whole. Something that Avid could be taking seriously ... they should be monitoring what we are discussing and see where it's heading and what they can do to respond. Because if we - just 'simple' guitarists - are thinking of moving on to another product - then I can tell you that there must be an absolute [expletive]loads of people exactly thinking the same.

And I'm not really talking about the 11R, most of the bad taste in my mouth came from the release of PT10. I will be most definitely moving to a new DAW. The fact that none of my plugins will work with PT11 sealed the deal.

The non-movement or non-development of the 11R - case in point, a simple stand-alone editor - makes me feel that Avid may have abandoned the product. The stand-alone editor could have Avid branding all over it reinforcing how 'great' Avid thinks they are - even have a window showcasing all their brilliant products on the side. I wish that guy making the editor had got his code out it would be nice to see how far he got with the whole process.

I almost feel that IdeaScale should be shut down because really if there is no development going on then don't mislead us into thinking that there is.

I love my 11R and use it daily but somewhere down the track I will have to move on. Sometimes, I miss my J-Station, and other times I miss my Korg Unit and in the future I will miss my 11R.

You know even if Avid realeased a new you beaut product like the 11R II - with a greatly expanded Amp lineup, cabs, IR's and FX - I am in a minority that thinks the modelling is damn good, dare I say it ... - I don't think I would buy it. Every customer likes to feel valued, even if it only PR spin which it usually is - I remember at the launch of PT9 range that Avid is listening to thier customers and responding - well, no you're not.

And I would just like to say that I have no idea what I'm talking about, my brain hurts, so I'll crawl back under my rock .
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2012, 08:39 PM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

Quote:
Originally Posted by moff View Post
But do ANY of us NEED Pro Tools 10? Did PT 9 or PTLE suddenly stop working? I would say no - none of us NEED it. We've all convinced ourselves that we want it, or that we're somehow entitled to it - so much so that we believe we need it, but the fact is, most of what many of us do could be accomplished on PTLE.

Certainly, a hobbyist demo-maker doesn't need PT10. Some of us may be pro musicians, maybe even semi-pro "engineers", and the more experience we gather, the more you'd think we'd need the full deal. In reality, we realize over time that we won't be tracking the next Grammy Award-winning CD in our living rooms using Pro Tools 10 on our MacBooks (unless you're a rap/hip hop guy who uses pre-mastered loops), and so our home\portable recording rigs are really scratchpads at best. And with that in mind, lots can be accomplished with the PTLE\PT9 that you already have.

If we DO get the opportunity to record a major-label album, it'll be at a "real" studio. And guess what? Even though some of us might be upset enough at Avid to decide not to buy Pro Tools in the future, it is in most of the major studios (and Logic has the remainder), and those studios spend BIG bucks on HD (HDX) and TDM systems, consoles, control surfaces, etc. The same goes for video production houses and the ISIS products. We, on the other hand do not spend big bucks, relatively speaking, and we're not likely to be in a position to do so. So once we weigh our spot in the marketplace against their core business, we see that a $500-$1000 customer is chump change, compared to the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars their "real" customers spend.

Sometimes I think we overestimate our importance. Our collective portion of Avid's business could go away tomorrow, and they'd never notice. Not only that, but we represent such a small drop in the revenue bucket that "future profitability" wouldn't notice if we all spontaneously combusted.
I don't only buy stuff that I NEED. I buy quite a bit of stuff that I want, because I derive pleasure from it. Companies sell people an awful lot of stuff they don't NEED. Look at Apple. How many people needed an iPhone 4S? How many did they sell?

Studios on the other hand, are more likely to buy stuff they NEED... because they are a business and are driven by return on investment. Avid might get chump change from me every year. They might get chump change from the studio once every upgrade cycle. The same "need" arguent applies to professional products, anyway, in fact, even more so.

I don't fantasize that Avid sits down and worries that they have lost me as a customer... I just take my dollar elsewhere. If I observe other people with similar sentiments, then on an heuristic basis, I would imagine that over time, market forces (ie. sales, and consequently Avid's bottom line) will invite them to rethink whether or not they wish to cater to the consumer base. With the low cost of computers these days, and the rapid proliferation of home recording (certainly MUCH more so than a decade ago), one must really wonder if it's a good idea to ignore the consumer/pro-sumer market, particularly when the product is one that benefits greatly from economies of scale. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people pumping out independent material on YouTube, ReverbNation etc etc aren't doing so on ProTools HD systems.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2012, 10:35 PM
richpjr richpjr is offline
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Default Re: Eleven rack stand alone editor

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Originally Posted by moff View Post
But do ANY of us NEED Pro Tools 10? Did PT 9 or PTLE suddenly stop working? I would say no - none of us NEED it. We've all convinced ourselves that we want it, or that we're somehow entitled to it - so much so that we believe we need it, but the fact is, most of what many of us do could be accomplished on PTLE.
If you run OS X Lion you NEED it. That means nobody with an 11R can buy a new Mac and run on it without also shelling out $500 for an upgrade, all the while knowing that the exact same hardware we bought now ships with 10 and the expansion pack for free. Not sure why people seem to feel the need to defend Avid on this - they made a deliberate business choice to do this. And a lot of disgruntled users will make other decisions about what vendor gets our money in the future.
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