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  #1  
Old 12-11-2009, 03:19 AM
RiF RiF is offline
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Location: Germany
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Default How to delay-compensate this scenario?

I am using UAD cards, so I have to care about plugin delay compensation and I don't have a solution for this - very common - scenario:
- 1 audio track
- 1 aux track
- a send of the audio track routes to the aux track
- the aux track has a delaying plugin inserted
=> the aux track's signal comes late by the amount of the plugin delay.

The only workaround that comes to my mind is duplicating the audio track, inserting the plugin on the second track, delaying the first audio track by the plugin delay amount (e.g. Time adjuster) and adjusting the mix of those two with the track faders instead of the send fader (which is not used anymore).

The root of my problem is that sends are post-insert (good!) and I have no chance anymore to delay this track's signal (other that routing this to a bus and delaying that one, which I think is way oversized).

How do you delay-compensate this scenario?
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2009, 04:05 AM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: How to delay-compensate this scenario?

Unfortunately, "oversized" it is

Create 2 busses:
Dry and EFX
Create these tracks:
1 audio track - output = dry bus, send 1 = efx bus

1 aux track where the UAD is inserted, input set to efx bus, output set to main stereo bus

1 aux track (called DRY) where a time adjuster plugin is inserted, input set to dry bus, output set to main stereo bus
Time adjuster plugin is set to the worst (biggest) delay of any tracks in your session

All audio tracks that have 0 delay get routed to the "DRY" aux track, which is effectively an unaffected, delay compensated submix.

Parallel effects auxes, like the one for your UAD, may need to also have a time adjuster plugin inserted..

Example: (I am making up numbers here)

An aux for the UAD has 1024 samples of delay
An aux with a different reverb plugin has 512 samples of delay

In this case the UAD is the worst offender, so that aux does not need a time adjuster.

The other reverb only delays the signal by 512, so you have to bump up the total to 1024 by having a time adjuster set to 512 after the reverb plugin.

Your dry aux in this case would be set to 1024, equal to the delay of the UAD aux.

If you have plugins on individual tracks that cause delay, then you should use a time adjuster on each of those individually to bring the total up to 1024. You can't send these to the dry aux cause then they would have 1024 + the delay from the plugins on that track..

If you have a plugin on a track that causes delay, and then you are using the send to the delayed aux... Well I'm not sure with that one.. I guess you'd have to compensate EVERY audio track with a time adjuster equal to that inserted plugin.. Sounds ugly.. I'd probably just write the effect (in a duplicate playlist) and move on...

If this isn't making sense, then watch these videos:

http://www.screencast.com/users/peed...ders/tutorials

In fact, watch them anyway, because they show you three different methods for determining the actual delay on a track. Sometimes this is not what the track is reporting...

Russ has a video too:

http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=260871

At the end, he shows a session with liquidmix, which should be very similar to your UAD...
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2009, 04:30 AM
RiF RiF is offline
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Default Re: How to delay-compensate this scenario?

Thanx to flommer for that detailled explanation. I already thought that it wouldn't be easy, but at least now I know how to do it (or to avoid it ;-)).
One of your best tips is probably printing some FX to alternate playlists. Helps a lot in keeping things easy and helps with my "unable to commit to a mix"-syndrome as well ;-)
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