11R + External FX for Pro Tools advise/question?

[mikefont]

Hey guys,

Up til now whenever I wanted to have any compressors or effects on a track in Pro Tools, I have used either plugins or onboard FX from the 11R. Now I have some external FX units that I want to connect to the 11R and use in the inserts on my session tracks.

I have a Joe Meek TwinQ2 connected to the 11R via the AES/EBU input that I use for mic'ing my amp cab to record. What I would like to know is how would you recommend I connect the other FX units that I have to be able to use them as track inserts into my sessions? They all have TSR in/out or send & return jacks on them. The 11R has a left & right TSR Line Input, but no line OUTPUTS.

I'm thinking that I should use the 11R's "Out to Amp 1 & 2" as my sends and have the returns going into the 11R' Line Inputs...correct?

Or will a insert on a PT track "see" the 11R's FX loop so I sound connect external FX send/return's there?

I'm thinking that a patchbay may be in order too. Any patchbay recommendations/advise?

Thanks for your time guys!


And just in case it helps, here is my rack

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[Darryl Ramm]

It is not clear what you are exactly trying to do, but Pro Tools does not "see" output to amp1/amp2 or the FX loop, they are internal to the Eleven Rack only.

If you want a more general Pro Tools setup with outboard effects you likely want an interface with more outputs and inputs visible to Pro Tools. But all that may not get you anything better than a software plugin. If you just say want to play with outboard effects only in a guitar rig, then experiment away, you can try running them on the input (if they handle low level signals), in the FX loop or after the output.

[mikefont]

Sorry, what I meant to say was that this:

Say I already have a session with a recorded guitar track (live mic'ed recording, not an 11R guitar modeled track). Say that I now want to add some compression from my dbx 266XL or some detune from my Pitchfactor or TSR-24S onto that track. My question was how to get those FX units properly connected to the 11R so that the inserts on my PT session tracks "see" those external units. The 11R is my only DAW interface.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

but Pro Tools does not "see" output to amp1/amp2 or the FX loop, they are internal to the Eleven Rack only.

That is what I was afraid of. I was wondering if I may have to buy another interface or not....so yes, going with "a more general Pro Tools setup" is what I'm looking at I guess.

So, anyone have an interface that they recommend that I could use with the 11R for Pro Tools?

Thanks for the reply Darryl!

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[Darryl Ramm]

Well you cannot do this, not in the traditional sense of how it is usually dobe with Pro Tools, with easy access to the effects using ins and outs from The interface, having delay compensation work as expected etc.

In a pinch, if stuck on a desert island with no better interface, you can find ways to at least get a signal through one of these boxes.... For example you can set the rig input to reamp, turn off all sim blocks in the Eleven Rack except the FX Loop, stick your effects block in that loop, then send your existing track you want to process to the reamp output in the Eleven Rack and record the processed results back from the Eleven Rack L/R output. Deal with any delay compensation needed manually. Besides being a pain to set up/swap around for other uses, this would take mono inputs only as the rig input is mono only (tell me you don't want to run the TRS-24S in mono )

You really want a more capable interface, or look for the same or equivalent software plugins (where I would start -- unless you needed a more capable interface for other reasons).

[nst7]

To expand on what Darryl said:

For Protools to actually see inserts, it requires going out of and into corresponding I\O. For example, output 3 must come back into input 3. Output 4 must cone back into input 4, and so on. On most interfaces with several inputs and outputs, that works fine. But the 11R I/O is more specialized, and I don't think they correspond that way, apart from the effects loop and the digital I/O, but those would be awkward to use for various reasons. You are better off using a different interface for that purpose.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by nst7

To expand on what Darryl said:

For Protools to actually see inserts, it requires going out of and into corresponding I\O. For example, output 3 must come back into input 3. Output 4 must cone back into input 4, and so on. On most interfaces with several inputs and outputs, that works fine. But the 11R I/O is more specialized, and I don't think they correspond that way, apart from the effects loop and the digital I/O, but those would be awkward to use for various reasons. You are better off using a different interface for that purpose.

The effects loop is not an interface input or output at all.

The SPDIF/AES/EBU digital IO on the eleven rack won't help here as far as I can see as none of the effects have digital ins or outs.

[mikefont]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Well you cannot do this, not in the traditional sense of how it is usually dobe with Pro Tools, with easy access to the effects using ins and outs from The interface, having delay compensation work as expected etc.

In a pinch, if stuck on a desert island with no better interface, you can find ways to at least get a signal through one of these boxes.... For example you can set the rig input to reamp, turn off all sim blocks in the Eleven Rack except the FX Loop, stick your effects block in that loop, then send your existing track you want to process to the reamp output in the Eleven Rack and record the processed results back from the Eleven Rack L/R output. Deal with any delay compensation needed manually. Besides being a pain to set up/swap around for other uses, this would take mono inputs only as the rig input is mono only (tell me you don't want to run the TRS-24S in mono )

You really want a more capable interface, or look for the same or equivalent software plugins (where I would start -- unless you needed a more capable interface for other reasons).

Thanks for the reply Darryl. I'm just looking at my current recording setup and thinking about other gear I want, and I just wanted to make sure that I have the means to interface them all. The 11R is great, but I guess that I am looking to get another interface to expand my options. Partly out of wanting to expand my studio rig & partly because there are other cool toys that I want to get and integrate into my rig!

And yeah, that old TSR-24S of mine has some cool patches in it that I would like to use on song songs to record. That was a great unit for it's time and it holds up in allot of ways still today.


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[Darryl Ramm]

If you are thinking of a new interface, try to collect your thoughts on all your needs: the inputs and outputs, mic preamps, digital connectivity, OS and computer compatibility, portability needs, and your budget and post that in a new thread and you should get good recommendations from folks.

Personally I really like the UAD Apollo and even more the new Apogee Ensemble (not an option as you are on a PC) but there are many choices out there, I would avoid any Avid consumer interfaces, and I suspect you want something with more IO that an MBox Pro anyhow.

[mikefont]

Yeah, the UA Apollo & Apogee stuff looks REALLY cool, but may be a bit out of my budget right now.

With my system (Windows 7 Pro), anything Thunderbolt doesn't look to be an option (although ASUS does have a Thunderbolt PCIE card, but it's not compatible with my motherboard, so that's out).

So, going with a Firewire or USB interface...I'm kind of eyeing the MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid, or maybe one of the Focusrite Saffire units.

Anybody have experience with any of those units?


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[Darryl Ramm]

There is a lot of love for Focusrite and MOTU on DUC. You can try searching for posts on a specific interface or ask your question in a new thread where it is more likely to be noticed.

The more you tell people about the needs you have the more folks can help you see wether that interface will meet your needs.

Remember you will likely want to hang the Eleven Rack off the interface as an outboard processor so it will consume one set of S/PDIF or AES/EBU outputs and inputs.