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  #1  
Old 11-27-2005, 06:53 PM
pioneerptw pioneerptw is offline
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Default cleaning mud

hey there

I was just wondering how many high and low pass filters you guys/girls are generally using when mixing rock/metal music.. Basically music with big guitars, thumping kick etc...

I'm having trouble getting my mixes to be as defined and clear as i would like them to be, i've been rolling off the lows usually like this

bass - 40/50 hz
kick - 60/70 hz
over heads - 200/300hz
guitars - 200/270 hz

I don't really know what else to say, basically everything is sounding fine in my monitors but when i listen back on my stereo it's muddied up... I know allot has to do with the room but even when i start cutting instruments at 240/300hz it's not getting any better

just looking for some advice thanks, mainly for the guitars i would say
also what do are instruments do you generally apply low pass filters too and at what cutoff frequencies
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2005, 07:31 PM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Using high pass filters like you are seems a bit severe to me, because you're almost completely removing the low end. Instead, try a shelving EQ and attenuate those freqs a few dBs. Adding a subwoofer to your monitor system could help you perceive the low end of your mixes more accurately. Trying not to sound alarmist here, but it might be a good idea to have your hearing checked; you might have lost some low end over the years.

As for kick, removing some 60 Hz may be called for, but not too much in my experience. Usually the muddiness in a kick lies between 300 and 550 Hz. Scoop that out using a band-pass filter, if you haven't already. If you need more "attack" try boosting a bit at 4 kHz.

Bass can usually be rolled off somewhere below 100 Hz, but if you're using a 5- or 6-stringer, the low B string might lose definition. I like to use a 6-band EQ on bass, just for the flexibility.

I find there's alot of useful tone in crunchy guitars above 100Hz, so rolling off near 200 Hz is, IMHO, detrimental, especially to the "chugs". Instead, compress or limit so that the "chugs" don't stick out so much. FWIW, I love PSP VintageWarmer on heavy guitars.

For overheads, I find alot of mud in (again) the 300-550 range. I find worthwhile snare and tom tone is the 100 to 200 range. Also, compressing (very quick attack and a very short release) by a few dBs can help the clarity, because it subdues the transients (which the close mics have captured best).

Hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: cleaning mud

use a low-cut for anything that has been recorded through a DI box; many times there's something unwanted going on in sub-40Hz frequencies. even a gentle 20Hz filter sometimes does the trick.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2005, 04:04 AM
pioneerptw pioneerptw is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

wow, i can't thank you enough I realize this was pretty simple advice but it was exactly what i needed.... I did some test mixes tonite and they sound 85% better just from playing around with the frequencies you gave me...
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:38 PM
N-G-NEER N-G-NEER is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Dear Pioneerptw

You may be doing yourself a huge disservice. If your monitors and room are not working no amount of eq will fix that on a regular basis. First make sure that your room is working that is to say that if your room does not respond in a fairly flat fasion your mixes will never translate. In addition as important or more important your monitors must be up to this task. Too often folks try to use stereo speakers or cheap monitors for mixing purposes. This simply will not work. If you examine the hisory of monitors you will learn this. a decade or so ago all the major studios used YAMAHA NS-10s. Not because they souded pleasing or warm but because if you got a mix to sound good on NS-10s it would sound good anywhere else. Today we have other monitors that do this well and sound better Genelec, Blue Sky, ADAM, and others. but you'l find it necasary to spend a few thousand for these monitors. If you want to put out a quality product you have to spend the bucks. If you think you can get the same results using a 200 dollar speaker like M-audio or editrol your only fooling yourself. Examine these areas first and onece you do you will see what eq does for your project. doing this any other way is simply a waste of time and money.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:49 PM
tribase tribase is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Just a quick thing about the rolloff on the bass:
On a regular 4 string bass the low e is at 41Hz and the aforementioned 5 string is even lower than that. So "rolling off below 100Hz" seems a little drastic, doesn't it?
Also, if you're trying to clean up the bottom end, maybe leave the bass alone, because something has to be there (mostly bass and some kick, depending on the style of course). Clean everything that has no important frequencies down there, like e.gtr (though lowest note is at 82 Hz), a gtrs, keys, vocals etc. Again depending on the parts, always.

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Old 11-29-2005, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Yes, don't roll off, and try cutting around 250Hs as said above.
I'd (ask to) record the instrument again if I cut like -6db at the most, and if it still sounded muddy.

Best,

PS. I used to do the same mistake when I was younger and still a engineer for just my own!
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Old 12-07-2005, 12:05 AM
N-G-NEER N-G-NEER is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Be careful when rolling off any frequency on a general basis. although the technique will work sometimes, as with all things nothing is that hard and fast as a rule. You should also take note that although the fundimental note is 41 Hz there are harmonics that resonate both above and below these tones that make the sound individual and pleasing to the ear.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2005, 12:24 PM
DHG MUSIC DHG MUSIC is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Im gonna pass on a tip that a really good friend of mine gave me

rool down about 5 to 7 dbs on 326 hz, that ots the universal mud factor
do this on every channel, including reverbs, returns, etc


good luck
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:06 PM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Re: cleaning mud

Quote:
Im gonna pass on a tip that a really good friend of mine gave me
I'd say he's not really a really good friend.

Just remember to use your ears. BTW my hate frequency is too much 250hz, especially in vocals.
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