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  #1  
Old 10-06-2007, 09:51 PM
philper philper is offline
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Default new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

So this plug doesn't actually make 8 tracks of PT into a Dolby E pair--it preps the 8 ch. group for encoding on Dolby equipment? What is the advantage, other than faster-than-real-time encoding? The idea is that it could make my 8 tracks into a single (theoretically non-screw-uppable) file and the encoding would be automatic? But doesn't the Dolby E file have to layed down onto videotape in real time? We usually make PT sessions that have ALL the channels needed to do a layback for all channels of a video master all at once--4 tracks for the 4 PCM tracks and 16 tracks for 2 Dolby E pairs for D5. So with this plugin, the Dolby E encoded file would go into a new PT session w/ the PCM tracks, and then we'd layback from that PT session to the video master? How is this more efficient--it seems like an extra step?

Philip Perkins
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2007, 07:51 AM
Wellnitz Wellnitz is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Hi Phillip,

we are very interested ín this plg-in, cause we are planning 4 tapeless tv stations.
As we discuss the dolby stuff and the problems with encoding and decoding (1 frame delay ) we decide to work without dolby e encoding.

So here we are, we need the metadata in a 5.1 bwf file without encoding dolby e.
Thats why neyrinck is useful.

My 2 cents

Jochen
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2007, 10:38 AM
philper philper is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Quote:
Hi Phillip,

we are very interested ín this plg-in, cause we are planning 4 tapeless tv stations.
As we discuss the dolby stuff and the problems with encoding and decoding (1 frame delay ) we decide to work without dolby e encoding.

So here we are, we need the metadata in a 5.1 bwf file without encoding dolby e.
Thats why neyrinck is useful.

My 2 cents

Jochen
Thanks--I see how it would be useful in that way.

Philip Perkins
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:45 PM
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Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Quote:
So this plug doesn't actually make 8 tracks of PT into a Dolby E pair--it preps the 8 ch. group for encoding on Dolby equipment?
This plug-in takes 8 tracks (5.1+2 for example) that you have bounced-to-disk (or recorded via internal bussing), and sends them to the DP600C for Dolby E encoding.
Quote:
What is the advantage, other than faster-than-real-time encoding? The idea is that it could make my 8 tracks into a single (theoretically non-screw-uppable) file and the encoding would be automatic?
If you screw up the metadata parameters you specify in the encoder plug-in, it will make a screwed-uppable file. If you set the metadata parameters correctly, it makes a proper file. I would refrain some saying non-screw-uppable. I say this because earlier this year we had a client that wanted us to make Dolby E files for them that they would then layoff when they created their master. On one occasion, there was a dropout in the decoded Dolby E on tape. When we played back the WAV file we provided them (Dolby E encoded) at that same point, there was no dropout. Hence, you can do it right, but something else might go wrong, which is beyond your control.
Quote:
But doesn't the Dolby E file have to layed down onto videotape in real time?
Yes, but so does anything else that you are printing to tape, so I don't quite understand your point.
Quote:
We usually make PT sessions that have ALL the channels needed to do a layback for all channels of a video master all at once--4 tracks for the 4 PCM tracks and 16 tracks for 2 Dolby E pairs for D5. So with this plugin, the Dolby E encoded file would go into a new PT session w/ the PCM tracks, and then we'd layback from that PT session to the video master?
You could if you wanted to.
Quote:
How is this more efficient--it seems like an extra step?
It's only an extra step because you are thinking of doing it that way (which you could). I visited Paul's fort and Dolby's fortress. Here's how this works (I'm not liable for any inaccuracies).

1. You create your mixes. Let's work under the premise its a 5.1 and an Lt/Rt.
2. When you have your mixes bounced, you import them back into the timeline.
3. You select your mixes on the timeline, and load Paul's plug-in (I can't recall the official
name).
4. You set the metadata, and a place to put the resulting file. The resulting file should be a
watch folder on the Dolby DP600C.
5. When the Dolby DP600C sees a new file in the watch folder specified for Dolby E encoding, it
starts encoding the file (I hear the time savings is on the order of 5:1).
6. When the Dolby DP600C completes the Dolby E encoding process, it puts the resulting 2 channel
BWAV file where it was specified to do so.
7. You import the BWAV file from step 6 into Pro Tools via another of Paul's plug-ins. You choose
what you want the offset to be (from -2 to +2 frames), and it spots it.
8. You can now output that file (non-dithered mixer) to the VTR for layback.

There are two (2) of the Dolby DP600's. The DP600 does loudness (dialnorm) correction. The DP600C does loudness correction, Dolby E encoding, and a host of other file-based encode functions. The DP600C is more expensive (sorry if that's obvious).
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:17 AM
Wellnitz Wellnitz is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

So you see Phillip,

as Jonathan pointed out the dolby e and neyrinck workflow, thats why we don´t want to go this ......dolby e way.
And its not the end of the story, cause non of the tv customers can hear dolby e. You have to decode dolby e and encode dolby ac3 for transmission with a known 2 frame delay.

Question to Jonathan:

isn´t it faster to record your 5.1 mix and the dolby stream back into PT in one process?
For me bounce to disc is a time waste. You can´t stop and make changes and go on from that point .

my 2 cents

Jochen
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2007, 09:07 AM
philper philper is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

OK, so I think I see that the Neyrinck plug allows you to do the work of making the Dolby E stream faster than real time if you have a DPC600 hooked up to the PT system, therefor allowing a post house to make fuller use of their investment in the Dolby boxes. After thinking it through I don't see how it would help those of us who don't have the DPC600 gear very much. Even if we could get encoded in faster than real time we'd still need the Dolby E gear to decode during layback for QC.

I can see why you might want to avoid Dolby E altogether if you had the choice, but as a "content provider" for American TV networks it is NOT avoidable for us at the present time.

Philip Perkins
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Sorry I'm a little confused

Is SoundCode for Broadcast Delivery the thing you're speaking of?

It isn't linked from Neyrinck's product pages.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:56 PM
philper philper is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

This is what I was referring to.

http://www.neyrinck.com/Pages/scbd.html

Philip Perkins
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Quote:
Question to Jonathan:

isn´t it faster to record your 5.1 mix and the dolby stream back into PT in one process?
For me bounce to disc is a time waste. You can´t stop and make changes and go on from that point.
Yes, it is faster to record the mix and Dolby E stream back into PT in one process. I prefer to do the Dolby E layback though. If I give a Dolby E WAV file to someone, and then something goes wrong, it comes back to us, even if we did everything right.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2007, 06:15 PM
PilPro PilPro is offline
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Default Re: new Neyrinck Dolby E plug in

Hey Folks-

I didn't make it to AES to ask this question. Do you need a Dolby DP600 in order to add metadata to the BWF that SoundCode for Broadcast produces? Or can you make the Dolby E BWF with SoundCode only and lay it back to HDCAM, Digbeta, etc?

-PZ
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