Controlling Avid interface pres via external MIDI?

[Eric Lambert]

It's ultimately a ProTools question since the app needs to administer these messages. What I'm hoping to do is use my Stream Deck+ to control the volume and mutes of the pres built into my interface (it's a Prism Titan w/ PTHDX module, which ProTools sees as an Avid Pre when it comes to the preamps). I can adjust pre input levels via the Control app, and within ProTools, but I'm hoping to use the knobs on my Stream Deck+ for volume/mute/whatever else it can do.

I feel as though there must be a way to do this, but when I configure the Stream Deck's knob as a generic MIDI knob and set it to the Titan Pre in Audio MIDI Setup it doesn't actually control the pres. I'm missing a step or two.

[Nistov]

Have you checked the MIDI-section in Appendix C of the Digidesign Pre guide? Should work:
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor..._v80_56123.pdf

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by Nistov

Have you checked the MIDI-section in Appendix C of the Digidesign Pre guide? Should work:
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor..._v80_56123.pdf

Haha. I did that right after I posted this and used those CCs and indeed it did work. Thanks! I guess I should have checked *before* posting but didn't think of it.

I have to say... having this functionality hard-wired to a StreamDeck knob is pretty slick.

[Eric Lambert]

The problem with this is that it doesn't update the gain shown in the Pre section of the mix window. I turn a knob and the Titan's pre does indeed increase or decrease as expected, but what's shown in ProTools remains static. Even turning on the Pad via MIDI has no effect on the PT GUI.

I suppose it's because the MIDI controller is communicating directly with the Titan. But this seems like it's being overlooked by ProTools since external MIDI control and full functionality are illustrated in the Pre's manual.

I'll look for an alternate way to perform this function but this is the most obvious, and not particularly cryptic or complicated for PT to handle.

[Darryl Ramm]

(edit: oops I see you mentioned you have already got this working in Pro Tools in the first post) Have you played with setting up Pro Tools so it's mic preamp GUI can control your preamps? Does that work... and then does using the Deck+ who movement... Pro Tools must know how to look at the external MIDI at least for some control surfaces (but maybe how it does it's own stuff with D-Command etc. is proprietary). I would hope Pro Tools just sees this MIDI traffic and responds to it... is the MIDI physical wiring such that those messages can get back to Pro Tools? Maybe check with a MIDI sniffer?

[Eric Lambert]

Yes the PT GUI was always able to control the preamps in the Titan (in fact because of the PTHDX card in the Titan, PT thinks it's an Avid Pre). The problem seems to be that the Stream Deck is communicating directly with the Titan. There's no MIDI cabling involved as the Stream Deck is USB and the Titan is registered in Audio MIDI Setup as its own device, as per the Avid Pre's manual. MIDI messaging is virtual.

I didn't fully understand where the MIDI messages were going under this scenario but at first thought was pretty sure that ProTools was handling it. Now I can see how it's probably uninvolved.

The Stream Deck, unfortunately, is sitting outside the PT/Eucon ecosystem, hence the issue. I can adjust the preamp fader in PT and the hardware preamp will follow, and so will my Eucon devices. Or I can adjust preamp volume via Eucon and PT and the hardware preamp will follow. They're all in sync. But under neither circumstance does the Stream Deck get updated.

Efforts to get the Stream Deck to communicate via Eucon are fruitless, as expected. That would have been ideal. I still feel that there's a way to get this done but it's not yet obvious. I may check in with Avid but I know they'll say that it's not expected functionality for PT/Eucon and that I'm out of luck.

[BScout]

Other than Eucon (which is completely separate), MIDI control of Pres in Pro Tools isn't Eucon. It doesn't matter if the Titan was thought to be Avid or not (there are other MIDI controllable pres for Pro Tools like Grace Design.) When you go into peripherals and set up the pres, that means it is communicating via MIDI even for Pro Tools. Eucon sends messages to Pro Tools and then Pro Tools communicates via MIDI to the hardware again.

What is needed is to put a man-in-the-middle so there is a circular feed (or in this case, sending the messages to two places.) Pre control is both in and out for feedback/status updates. So set Streamdeck MIDI out to Titan MIDI in. Titan MIDI out to PT MIDI in (in peripherals) and also send Titan MIDI out to Streamdeck MIDI in (if needed). And finally PT MIDI out (in peripherals) to Titan MIDI in (midi merge.) All these being virtual. The multi outs should be doable straight from AMS. The midi merge might need a virtual midi driver.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by BScout

Other than Eucon (which is completely separate), MIDI control of Pres in Pro Tools isn't Eucon. It doesn't matter if the Titan was thought to be Avid or not (there are other MIDI controllable pres for Pro Tools like Grace Design.) When you go into peripherals and set up the pres, that means it is communicating via MIDI even for Pro Tools. Eucon sends messages to Pro Tools and then Pro Tools communicates via MIDI to the hardware again.

Understood, which is why the Stream Deck emulating Eucon feels like the best option. I'm seeing no way of doing so, which isn't entirely surprising, but that won't stop me from trying.

Originally Posted by BScout

What is needed is to put a man-in-the-middle so there is a circular feed (or in this case, sending the messages to two places.) Pre control is both in and out for feedback/status updates. So set Streamdeck MIDI out to Titan MIDI in. Titan MIDI out to PT MIDI in (in peripherals) and also send Titan MIDI out to Streamdeck MIDI in (if needed). And finally PT MIDI out (in peripherals) to Titan MIDI in (midi merge.) All these being virtual. The multi outs should be doable straight from AMS. The midi merge might need a virtual midi driver.

I tried a similar scenario earlier today but it didn't work. Can't remember the exact roadblock now but will take another stab tomorrow.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Understood, which is why the Stream Deck emulating Eucon feels like the best option.

Nothing can emulate Eucon. It's part of Avid's restrictions -- no tools are provided for anyone to implement the control surface part only the ability to be controlled by an Avid eucon surface.

This is how Eucon/Eucontrol is "free" for anyone who wants to implement using it in their software. Avid makes that money back by selling hardware to cover development.