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  #11  
Old 09-16-2022, 06:57 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
OK great, get stuff to me when you can, a clean session and screenshots would be great and just using core plugins. And remember I'm suspicious that you are seeing some bug due to the fixed size disk IO buffer, something that may be related to paths that does not route to a monitor out (and therefore is not considered "low latency" by Pro Tools and that would use the adjustable size IO Buffer size, so keep routings simple, don't use sends etc.).
Okay I'm back and took some time to fiddle with this thing.

I made a quick video (sorry for the angled view, I don't have any screen capture software) to show exactly what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJNnpp5JKO4&ab

Session it as simple as it gets, two click tracks, one with nothing (except the click generator), the other with the hardware insert and an avid EQ1 plugin.

Let me know if more info needed, but it sure looks like a bug to me

Last edited by flandybob; 09-20-2022 at 11:00 AM. Reason: typo
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:13 PM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

By the way, I tried searching couldn't find anything: is there a way to log a bug report directly to Avid?
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2022, 03:47 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

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Originally Posted by flandybob View Post
By the way, I tried searching couldn't find anything: is there a way to log a bug report directly to Avid?
You create a technical support case here: https://www.avid.com/learn-and-suppo...-music-support

Describe what is happening carefully, Avid support will get in touch with you, try to reproduce what you see, if so they may open a bug. It can be as simple as one email back and forwards after you file the support case.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2022, 06:12 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by flandybob View Post
Okay I'm back and took some time to fiddle with this thing.

I made a quick video (sorry for the angled view, I don't have any screen capture software) to show exactly what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJNnpp5JKO4&ab

Session it as simple as it gets, two click tracks, one with nothing (except the click generator), the other with the hardware insert and an avid EQ1 plugin.

Let me know if more info needed, but it sure looks like a bug to me
Great. Looks simpler. I see similar brain broken behavior here now I can see what you are doing with toggling LLM.

If you leave LLM disabled do you find any other problems? I never use LLM so would not normally have seen this.

In future, the Mac has build in Screeenshot.app that can record high quality video screen capture which is easier to see.

BTW in your tests note what is your IO buffer size set to? (that forms a real part of any hardware insert latency, and should be compensated for automatically when Delay Comp is enabled).

When you have a support case number please post that here.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2022, 01:42 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Great. Looks simpler. I see similar brain broken behavior here now I can see what you are doing with toggling LLM.

If you leave LLM disabled do you find any other problems? I never use LLM so would not normally have seen this.

In future, the Mac has build in Screeenshot.app that can record high quality video screen capture which is easier to see.

BTW in your tests note what is your IO buffer size set to? (that forms a real part of any hardware insert latency, and should be compensated for automatically when Delay Comp is enabled).

When you have a support case number please post that here.
Hi Darryl,

Noted for the screenshot app, will try this next time.

Buffer was 1024 (added to video description).

It works as expected with LLM off although I didn't do any in depth testing, for now I typically use the hardware insert to reamp a DI bass through my sansamp (nice to be able to tweak the settings live on a full mix before committing).

As it is it's not a big issue for me unless I want to punch in on a mix with a hardware insert on some tracks but I don't think I will in the foreseeable future (may be an issue for others).

Case 04508961 opened just now.
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  #16  
Old 09-23-2022, 09:23 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

I have 2 concerns:
#1-is this the interface you have?
https://www.zzounds.com/item--UADAPP...UO?siid=289836
If so, it would seem a royal PITA to insert hardware with only 2 IO.

#2-is the UA mixer software causing the issue?
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2022, 10:00 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

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Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
#2-is the UA mixer software causing the issue?
Given I reproduced this with a RME Fireface UFX+, and already noted that in the thread above, I would say not

when I get time today I'll file that with Avid support so they know.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2022, 01:30 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
I have 2 concerns:
#1-is this the interface you have?
https://www.zzounds.com/item--UADAPP...UO?siid=289836
If so, it would seem a royal PITA to insert hardware with only 2 IO.

#2-is the UA mixer software causing the issue?
Hi Albee, nope I'm using an original rack Apollo fitted with a thunderbolt 3 card, which is also linked to an Apollo Twin MkII thunderbolt 2.

Issue is the same wether I have only the rack Apollo connected or the Apollo Twin also connected.

UA mixer is muted so it’s not coming from there either

Not related to the topic, but while it's a hassle to use hardware insert with only a twin, it's actually not that hard once you get a handle on how to configure the I/O in the UAD console app.
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Last edited by flandybob; 09-24-2022 at 02:31 AM. Reason: Add info
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2022, 11:37 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

FYI my case is closed with Avid, the guy I spoke with seemed to be focused on «*resolving my issue*» (asking me for info I mentioned in the video but well…).

when I said I knew how to work around it and I was merely reporting a bug he closed the case as it’s not for the customer care department, not sure if it got escalated elsewhere or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2022, 12:00 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

That's bad support behavior. Support incident to bug stuff at Avid is messed up. I see multiple workflow and tracking issues that would never be allowed to exist at say an enterprise software company (and I've worked at and helped start multiple of those). But the support staff generally make up for it and are helpful, here sounds like you got a less helpful person.

I would go back and say it's a bug and you want a bug opened. Or if a bug was opened ask for the bug number, they don't always give them out without asking.

Support have opened two or three bugs for me in the last few weeks, all low priority things but I just wanted them documented.
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