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  #1  
Old 04-26-2022, 09:32 PM
scenaria scenaria is offline
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Default MADI core audio interface recommendation

So with the new 2022.4 release it looks like ultimate can run up to 256 channels of io via core audio.

I just purchased a digital console with coax MADI.

Can anyone recommend a cheap solution for a core audio
Based MADi interface? I’d love to setup 128 channels of MADI.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2022, 11:00 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

128 channels at what sample rate? What computer? What connection?

Most interfaces only provide one coax MADI connector, if they have more it's likely optical and/or pluggable SFP. Which means you likely need at least one format converter (or more if running at high sample rates).

Got PCIe Slots? RME HDSPE MADI FX is the bee's knees.

At the other end RME Madiface do it for you? 64 channel optical + 64 channel coax = 128 channels at 44.1/48 kHz. Small compact. Low cost. USB 2 ... and RME has lots of stuff explain how USB 2 is fine for this IO count.

If you need two coax loops you could use a second Madiface in stand alone more to act as a format converter. Or buy a third party format converter. Or can you put an optical card/connection in the console? Esp. if going any distance I'd just rather run optical).

I have a Madiface (and Fireface UFX+), its nice. Typical RME quality, Totalmix mixer support. Has a limited stand alone capability to convert optical/coax. A Madiface is a handy tool to have with you if working with MADI even if it's not the main interface.

If you want more connectivity for other formats, then many of the RME interfaces have MADI on both optical and coax.

Other stuff out there from Moto and others.
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2022, 11:01 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

Cheap?

Since you posted in Firewire and USB, the best (and cheapest) option is RME.
And in every other case, it's RME.

(Unless you go to modular systems, then it is probably still RME but there are more options)
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2022, 01:58 AM
scenaria scenaria is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

I am running a 2013 mac pro. It’s installed In a sonnet rack chassis and has 3 PCIe slots available.

All of this MADI will always run at 44.1/48

It needs to be over coax as the consoles I/O is coax and I would rather not have the expense of converting from fiber to coax

The truth is the console I believe has a limit of 48 channels per MADI connection but can bring in up to 6 MADI connections in total (I don’t need that many tho)

128/144 channels from protools to the console is ideal and I’m ok if the console to protools was limited to 96.

PCIe I think might be the best rout but I just have not looked to see what is reasonable.

My intention was to go with SSL deltas over digilink but to things changed. One the delta is fiber out which means another $500 converter per box. And the other is the increase in I/O being added to the latest version of PT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
128 channels at what sample rate? What computer? What connection?

Most interfaces only provide one coax MADI connector, if they have more it's likely optical and/or pluggable SFP. Which means you likely need at least one format converter (or more if running at high sample rates).

Got PCIe Slots? RME HDSPE MADI FX is the bee's knees.

At the other end RME Madiface do it for you? 64 channel optical + 64 channel coax = 128 channels at 44.1/48 kHz. Small compact. Low cost. USB 2 ... and RME has lots of stuff explain how USB 2 is fine for this IO count.

If you need two coax loops you could use a second Madiface in stand alone more to act as a format converter. Or buy a third party format converter. Or can you put an optical card/connection in the console? Esp. if going any distance I'd just rather run optical).

I have a Madiface (and Fireface UFX+), its nice. Typical RME quality, Totalmix mixer support. Has a limited stand alone capability to convert optical/coax. A Madiface is a handy tool to have with you if working with MADI even if it's not the main interface.

If you want more connectivity for other formats, then many of the RME interfaces have MADI on both optical and coax.

Other stuff out there from Moto and others.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2022, 02:37 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by scenaria View Post
128/144 channels from protools to the console is ideal and I’m ok if the console to protools was limited to 96.
You lost me with the asymmetry there. In terms of the MADI channel count you would have symmetrical number of channels.... MADI is a ring. What the console hardware can do internally with routing those MADI channels to/from actual IO paths inside the mixer, that's up to it.

Whichever way you go if you want this number of channels you will be buying format converters.

If you *need* wordclock for other reasons make sure you don't need to assign any of those MADI coax connections to work clock (again no idea what console you are talking about because you don't say..).

Check with RME about running their MADI cards in the sonnet chassis. You are looking at $1.7k-$2k street price range for RME PCIe MADI cards.

Make sure your console or other gear you need to connect to MADI is not doing stupid tricks with control signalling etc. that any software you might run on the computer needs to use. Legacy MADI is 56 channels, newer MADI should all do 64 channels. I suspect you mean 56??? If somebody says something has a 48 channel capacity it's either a limit in the connected device (e.g. the console section connected to that MADI only has 48 channels) not MADI itself, and/or they might be using some of the MADI channels for data/signaling/control/automation.


Budget? Latency requirements? etc. etc. If you are not sure you can pick up a used Madiface for ~<$600 and see how that goes/learn with it, upgrade to PCIe cards later if needed... and keep Madiface as a useful test/debug tool.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 04-27-2022 at 03:06 AM.
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2022, 04:04 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

Get an RME HDSPe MADI PCIe card and a format converter for fiber to coax. That will be your best solution.

PCIe Card: RME HDSPe MADI $1800
Converter: Lynx Technik OTR 1240 $366

That'll give you 128 channels i/o plus a stereo analogue output, 2in/2out MIDI ports, and word clock. You'll need a multimode LC to SC fibre to hook the converter in (the RME has SC connectors, the converter is LC connectors -- you can find these cables cheaply on amazon)

And avoiding those SSL Delta links is a good thing (ran them for years before there was MADI for Pro Tools directly from Avid) and they have issues. So you dodged a bullet.
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2022, 04:08 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

The standards for MADI are 56 channel (older) or 64 channel.
I only know SSL used 48 channels of a 56/64 channel stream (so the stream is actually operating with more channels just not all being used.) There was never a 48 channel stream format. Most modern MADI devices can have the stream channel count set (including the RME) from software options.
But you have to get it right otherwise a mismatch will sound either like bit crushing (across all channels) or a high pitched whine on the last 8 channels.
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2022, 06:30 AM
scenaria scenaria is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

The console is a Neve Capricorn. It works in 48’channel
Chunks. Yes it connects over 56 channel MADI but I don’t believe the additional 8 channels are actually available. Word clock is of course necessary and it may be that I can get fiber MADI cards tho they are hard to come by. I’ll take a look at what you suggested. I looked into the MOTU M64 but if I run two
Of those I’m concerned about the USB bus handling it.

Last edited by scenaria; 04-27-2022 at 06:44 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2022, 07:04 AM
scenaria scenaria is offline
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

Just noticed RME has an HDSPE FX which would provide 3 in and 3 out at 56 . Only catch is two of the ports are fiber. Considering the chassis has only 3 spots and the card uses one but takes up two bays. This might be the best bang for the $
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2022, 12:01 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: MADI core audio interface recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by scenaria View Post
Just noticed RME has an HDSPE FX which would provide 3 in and 3 out at 56 . Only catch is two of the ports are fiber. Considering the chassis has only 3 spots and the card uses one but takes up two bays. This might be the best bang for the $
Yes the exact card I first recommended, and I explained already most stuff will have fiber ports. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you want three fiber connections you can get a fiber daughter card instead of the coax one. If the console is providing the clock the RME really does not need word clock, the RME clock recovery from MADI is so good. It might also be possible to run just two MADI without the daughter card if you ever get slot limited, but not totally sure. Take the time to read about and play with Totalmix, if only to understand how to turn it off if you think you will never need it. It is really nice, but causes tears for confused users.
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