SoundID v5.3.0 MTRX Integration with Multichannel Support

[TrentWilliams]

Finally!

SoundID has released with MTRX SPQ integration. The import workflow is a manual copy/paste process, but it works! *It also includes multichannel support (up to 9.1.6) and sample rates above 44.1.

Now I can finally kill the plug-in from my templates and remove the software as a system audio driver.

https://www.sonarworks.com/legal/sou.../release-notes

[BScout]

So, not really "integration".

Sounds like it builds a preset that is SPQ compatible (which is easy enough since the SPQ files are just a text section in the dmprof file.) I imagine that SoundID and the SPQ have different features/limitations so your SoundID results will not be exactly the same as the SPQ version.

Just trying to understand though I can see this fixes your issue.

[TrentWilliams]

You’re right, it’s not full integration, but it’s as much as they’re willing to give MTRX users access to the SoundID measure workflow. It’s limitation is SPQ itself which only allows up to 16 bands and rounds to the to the nearest 0.01.

I spent some time A-B-ing the two, they’re close enough for what I need it for. I mostly just wanted to lose the latency, and I hated that whenever I opened PT SoundID would forget it was the default sound output device so I would have to close it and reopen it every time.

[LDS]

Has anyone figured out what this ‘phase alignment’ mumbo jumbo is about?

They say phase alignment in the release notes, but their video describes it as ‘phase alignment for accurate time delay calibration’ and their website describes it as ‘phase based time alignment with sub millisecond accuracy’.

Given that they also say it operates with no latency, I assume what they really mean to say is that they aren’t correcting or aligning phase for any speakers…. They are just factoring the measured speaker phase relationships in when calculating the simple time of arrival delay values?

It is marketing speak, right?

[BScout]

You could correct phase (for the complete speaker, not per band really or driver) with an all pass filter.

Now the SPQ has no all pass filter (*hint *hint DAD/Avid) so that would be out, but a very low FR set high-pass filter could rotate phase in 45 deg steps depending on order. That would generally be considered no added latency.

But I can't make sense of the rest of that marketing speak.

[Katrina_]

Hello there,

Thank you for following our latest developments from Sonarworks! I'm Kat from Sonarworks. I would like to apologize for the fact that our launch communication has not been clear enough. What we meant with the feature is that SoundID Reference for Multichannel delivers accurate adjustments for channel delays to ensure perfect time alignment at the listening spot, with sub-millisecond precision. The time delay calculations are based on phase response measurements, which are taken during the speaker measurement process.

Does this feature correct the phase response of the speakers?
No, this feature only aligns delays of the speakers based on phase response measurement to ensure simultaneous arrival of sound signals from all speakers to your ears. Depending on your system, very often this brings massive improvements in terms of sharp sound stage and overall sound clarity.

How does the 0 latency feature work if you introduce channel time delays?
The 0 latency feature refers to our core DSP engine that runs 0 latency filter in our plugin and systemwide. In case you have measured and introduced channel time delays for soundstage correction, those will be added on top. Also the Systemwide drivers introduce additional latency required to operate the virtual sound card driver. Please refer to the systemwide app to see the full cycle-latency that is being reported live in the bottom-left corner of the application main window.

What about phase correction
We plan to introduce a phase correction feature for users of our plugin and systemwide calibration as well as select hardware partners in one of the upcoming releases before the end of 2022.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our team, we will be happy to assist you accordingly!

[Katrina_]

Hello there,

Thank you for sharing your feedback about our latest product release. I'm Kat from Sonarworks. I would like to apologize if our information about the phase alignment feature description was not clear enough. What we meant with that was:

SoundID Reference for Multichannel delivers accurate adjustments for channel delays to ensure perfect time alignment at the listening spot, with sub-millisecond precision. The time delay calculations are based on phase response measurements, which are taken during the speaker measurement process. Thus this feature is sometimes called phase alignment. Time alignment will be applied by default when loading your speaker calibration profile in the DAW plugin. It is located in the Listening Spot section, and can be disabled manually.

Does this feature correct the phase response of the speakers?
No, this feature only aligns individual channel delays of the speakers based on phase response measurement to ensure the simultaneous arrival of sound signals from all speakers to your ears. Depending on your system, this often brings significant improvements in terms of sharper sound stage and overall clarity.

Is latency affected by the time alignment feature (Zero Latency)?
The Zero Latency feature in SoundID Reference refers to our core DSP engine running in the zero-latency DSP filter mode. With time alignment enabled for soundstage correction, those delays will be added on top of the full-cycle latency (reported in the Latency overview at the bottom-left corner of the plugin).

Time alignment added delay figures will depend on each individual setup, the exact values will be shown in the Listening Spot section.


What about phase correction?
Yes, we plan to introduce a phase correction feature in SoundID Reference for Multichannel with a free software update for Multichannel license owners before the end of 2022.

If you have any further questions please feel free to reach out to our Support & we will be happy to assist accordingly!

[MPizzaMusic]

I purchased it to get my Atmos rig in the ballpark. The thing I'm really confused about is that it tells you to have Bass Management on from the start. I have a dual sub setup, one for LFE and one for bass management.

So the majority of EQ decisions that Sonarworks came up with were bass and sub frequencies, basically below my crossover point of 80hz. And correct me if I'm wrong - but SPQ EQ doesn't actually make decisions to the bass management right? It only EQ's the actual speakers. So essentially all of my speakers had significant EQ done below 80hz but since my crossovers were all set at 80, there was really nothing changed after EQ correction other than the speakers being a bit thinner. The bass management sub stayed exactly the same level after the fact. And there was no option in Sonarworks to tell it what crossover points I chose/should use. I ended up re-calibrating the room with bass management off, lowered the crossover after the fact to 60hz and then blending my sub in to taste after the fact. Then did my own room measurement to make sure I wasn't overdoing the low end.

I hope I'm making sense. Essentially theres no way to EQ bass management for every single speaker since I have one dedicated sub that handles the bass for all of them. Sonarworks I believe it treating it like a stereo setup where you have one subwoofer and both speakers are plugged into the output of the sub, so your EQ decisions also adjust the sub since it's technically one system.

I emailed SW and they said they'll pass my question along to someone higher up, but also said they are having "constant conversations about how to handle LFE, but please refer to articles above" which don't say anything. They may have dropped the ball on this to be honest. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[BScout]

If you monitor with bass management on, run sonarworks with bass management on, then the lower eq points should be the same for all speakers and only applied to the sub speaker that is handling bass management (which you can do in SPQ)

If you are getting different eq/level points for the frequencies going to the sub when checking each speaker (while bass management was on), then you are doing something wrong.

[MPizzaMusic]

Originally Posted by BScout

If you monitor with bass management on, run sonarworks with bass management on, then the lower eq points should be the same for all speakers and only applied to the sub speaker that is handling bass management (which you can do in SPQ)

If you are getting different eq/level points for the frequencies going to the sub when checking each speaker (while bass management was on), then you are doing something wrong.

I had a brain fart - you're absolutely right. The frequencies were the same for each speaker below the crossover point from from what I recall. As obvious as it seems now I wish they had explained it a bit more. I purchased Sonarworks and ran the correction the same day that I set up everything so I guess i was tired and didn't think it through. Thanks for clearing that up.