Mbox users, could you share your tips ?

[ISedlacek]

I try to get familiar with the Mbox, could you share your tips ? The following things are not very clear to me:
1) mix and headphone level adjustment in the front – they look like both working the same – you switch off one and the other does not work (no sound ...) – what is the practical use of them ?
2) Mono button – the explanation in the manual is not very clear to me ... What is the practical use and meaning of it ?
3) Latency – I read the Digi´s advice to avoid the latency – always put the recorded track mute. But sometimes it is not possible – when you need to hear well both the playback and the recorded instrument in your (closed) headphones. Then you hear a little delay (especially with drum and percussion), which is very bad – is there any way how to overcome this ?
4) Does the advice to switch everything after recording 164 samples back apply also for recording to Digi 001 ?

Thanks in advance for some tips ...

[yelhahc]

Hi there!

Okay - the mix and headphone pots each perform a completely different function - the headphone one is strictly a volume control for the headphone outputs........keep in mind that only one headphone output can be used at a time (the 1/4" output on the back will cut out the minijack output on the front when you plug into it).

The mix control is used for latency-free monitoring - and this is where I think you may be confused! When the control is fully turned to the right ("playback"), you will only hear the output of Pro Tools. When it's turned completely to the left ("input"), you will only hear the Mbox's inputs (for example, the mic or instrument you have plugged into the Mbox's inputs). If you have nothing plugged into the Mbox (or you haven't correctly selected mic/line/inst and turned up the gain) you won't hear anything when the mix control is all the way to the left.

Use the mix control to create a comfortable mix between what you are recording (input to the Mbox - "input") and your backing track (output of ProTools - "playback"). Mute the output of the track you are recording in the Pro Tools mixer - this stops you from hearing the track you're recording twice (once at the input of the Mbox using the mix control, and again through the output of ProTools).

For example, let's say you want to record a keyboard to go with some tracks you already have in ProTools. Plug the keyboard into the back of the Mbox, select "line" on that channel, and put the audio track in ProTools you want to record on in "record". Play the keyboard and set your record level using the gain pot on the Mbox. Next, play the track, and use the "Mix" control on the Mbox to get a balance between the keyboard and backing track that you like. When you're happy, set ProTools away in record, mute the output of the track you're recording on, and you're away! When you're happy with the recording, unmute the track in ProTools and turn the Mix control all the way back to the right - and don't forget to shift your new track back by 164 samples.

The reason the mix control is there is to avoid the latency you get from hearing what you're playing going through the computer and to the output of ProTools.

I hope that helps you understand the "Mix" control......... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

The mono button is only really of use if you are using both Mbox inputs to record two unrelated things at the same time - for example maybe you have a Bass on input 1 and a microphone on input 2. When you use the "Mix" control as described above, you would have your stereo mix from ProTools, bass in the left ear, and mic in the right ear (the Mbox assumes they are stereo). Use the Mono button so the bass and mic are both panned center. The mono button only has an effect in the Mbox input using the mix control, not on your recorded tracks or the ProTools playback - strictly for monitoring!!!

Finally - the 164 samples rule is only for the Mbox, there is a latency with the 001 as well, but it's a lot less...........

Hope this makes sense to you!!!

Steve. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ISedlacek]

Hello Steve,

thank you very much for your reply, very useful tips. Well, I record to MBox only via SPDIF (Apogee Rosetta). If I put the mix knob completely towards left, there is no sound in the headphones. I am still thinking how to do it with recording the playback and having the recorded track not muted, how to avoid the delay in the headphones .

Ivo

[jindrich]

isedlacek,
i have not bought the mbox yet (for my ibook and logic) because i wanted to know how all those latency things would work with the digi box.

my guessings:

for all the resaerch i've done on the matter, looks like direct monitoring -without signals passing thru the computer- is not avalaible but for the ANALOG inputs (analog input is routed DIRECTLY to the analog output so to be mixed with ptools' computer out. that sum difference is controlled by the mix rotary pot).

apparently, the mbox DA conversion just takes place with signals that come AFTER the computer. The DI is not connected to the DA as the analog input is connected to the analog output (this makes sense to avoid clipping when 'roughly' summing 2 dig signals before being converted to analog). To get the digital input back to analog it must first pass thru the computer and subsequent software, consequently you cant monitor that signal without latency.

If the mbox had more buttons/options regarding its path and settings that could have been implemented, but i guess it wasnt designed to be a very pro product (although lots of pro users are willing to use it)

Anyway i think they maybe a workaround for that situation (like anyone wanting to use the apogee mini-me as a front end to mbox+ptoolsLE):

1-hook your apogee DO to mbox's DI and record as you do selecting 'digital' as input. Mute that armed track output.
2-At the same time, split the analog signal that goes to the apogee (or could be an apogee's direct analog monitoring output) and plug that to the analog inputs of the mbox.

that way you may be able to monitor your input signal along with your prerecorded tracks, while recording digitally.

But i'm not sure if this works, because i dont know if when you set inputs to 'digital' the analog ins get muted.
Can some mbox owner try this?

BTW, with the mbox you can ONLY monitor what you feed in, but not what comes out (read: you cant hear/check what your AD converter is doing. At least not wihout latency)

regards

[vf124]

I've got a few really great tips:

1. Down load the .pdf "Getting Started w/ the Mbox".

2. If you own the Mbox manual, it's real easy reading, right?

3. Checkout Digi's FAQ (regarding Mbox)?

4. Checkout Digi's Answerbase (regarding Mbox)?

5. Search the DUC (regarding Mbox)?

I would be willing to bet a cold beer, 1 illegal cigar & a low budget prostitute, you will find "nearly" every answer ever asked about the very coool Mbox...

[superbass73]

Hi,

Is there anyway around the 164 samples rule?

For example, if I'm using a mixer with the MBox, and monitor audio I'm recording at the mixer, instead of through the Mbox, will I still get this latency? (I would leave the Mix knob fully right in this example.)

Thanks!

[Finally - the 164 samples rule is only for the Mbox, there is a latency with the 001 as well, but it's a lot less...........

Hope this makes sense to you!!!

Steve. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]

[dcurran]

Regarding the mono button...

I had the monitoring only in the left ear / right ear situation even with recording one input (guitar into line 1). I figured I had to use the mono switch for all recording, unless I was tracking something specifically in stereo.

my mBox should be only monitoring line 1 in the left ear / line 2 in the right ear even if I'm only using one input, correct?
dc

[yelhahc]

Jindrich:

Your idea about splitting the signal before the Rosetta should work - I don't have anything to plug into the SPDIF inputs right now, but I can confirm that when the Mbox is in SPDIF mode that you can still plug something into the analog inputs and hear it using the Mix controller,,,,,,,,,,,so that might be the solution to recording digitally into the Mbox and not hearing latency! Cool!

Superbass:

You would still need to move your recorded track back by 164 samples in relation to the tracks you were listening to, 'cos the 164 sample latency is to do with the time it takes the Mbox and computer to get your sounds into the hard disk as the song is playing (and your hard disk buffer), not to do with monitoring. In other words, there's a delay between your playing something into the Mbox and it recording it onto the disk and this is what you're compensating for. Does that make sense? At least that's the way I understand it from previous posts on here....
[img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

dcurran:

yeah you're absolutely right there man, you need to use the mono switch to monitor sounds in both headphones if you're only using one input...........sorry for the confusion!!!!
[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Steve.