Hyper-Threading RELOADED

[Monaco]

Is digi updating Pro Tools for multi-threading?
Shouldn't Pro Tools already be written for hyperthreading?

If Digidesign is too retarded to write multithreading into Pro Tools, Snow Leopard's Grand Central Dispatch will take care of it?

[myke2242]

You have a point but calling names doesn't get you anywhere! Good luck……

[Monaco]

Originally Posted by myke2242

You have a point but calling names doesn't get you anywhere! Good luck……

I know it won't get you anywhere, but first you've got to get mad! Get mad as hell!

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Is digi updating Pro Tools for multi-threading?
Shouldn't Pro Tools already be written for hyperthreading?

Grand Central Dispatch will take care of it?

If grand central dispatch does what it says on the tin then they won't need to recode PT...


Introducing Grand Central Dispatch.
Grand Central Dispatch (GCD) in Mac OS X Snow Leopard addresses this pressing need. It’s a set of first-of-their-kind technologies that makes it much easier for developers to squeeze every last drop of power from multicore systems. With GCD, threads are handled by the operating system, not by individual applications. GCD-enabled programs can automatically distribute their work across all available cores, resulting in the best possible performance whether they’re running on a dual-core Mac mini, an 8-core Mac Pro, or anything in between. Once developers start using GCD for their applications, you’ll start noticing significant improvements in performance.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Is digi updating Pro Tools for multi-threading?
Shouldn't Pro Tools already be written for hyperthreading?

If Digidesign is too retarded to write multithreading into Pro Tools, Snow Leopard's Grand Central Dispatch will take care of it?

Unfortunately, there are much more to this topic than meets the eye.
Some tasks aren't possible with hyper-threading. Lets take Apple's own Logic Pro.

You can instantiate 20 MOTU BPMs and once you hit play you will see the performance distribute nicely over the 8 cores or 16. However, and that is a huge however, if you set the midi-record enable to ON, on all 20 BPMs they will now be calculated on ONE core, thus not all distributed and Logic will either crash or play nothing. They only become distributed once Logic is in playback. They describe that in Logic's manual in way that makes sense too.

Lots of limitations to hyper threading. Lots of bonuses too.

Whether PT is hyper thread capable, I dont know but I do know that PT "Prefers Carbon" in its .plist file. That means that it isn't cocoa but a carbon application. I think. And what remains a fact is that there is NO and I repeat NO Carbon 64 Bit possibility with OS X Snow Leopard. Carbon was meant as a transitional framework for lazy software vendors to get their code ported into the cocoa framework which is superior. Apple was more or less force by the large contenders like Adobe to implement the carbon "copy" framework because "they" did not feel like writing their code for native OS X. That has changed and Apple is now the large contender, dictating its own rules NOT providing support for 64 bit carbon apps. So IMO digidesign should be looking into utilizing the true and NATIVE benefits of OS X. Which would mean that they would have to stop this Windows | Mac OS X side by side BS. OS X is superior in any way to Windows (Lets not start a Mac vs. Windows war) which is based on ancient code. I find it highly weird that the inept of one operating system of ONE platform should cripple the one of the other. PT has been crippled long enough just look at the digi browser. Browsing like that is simply put: SOMETHING WE DID 15 YEARS AGO. Putting graphics into dynamic libraries is again in layman's terms STUPID.

I absolutely adore Pro Tools and harness high regard for its creators, on the other hand - "DIGI, it is time to get with the program" and utilize the TRUE potential of OS X. Windows is not dead yet but dying. Failing to realize that could very easily cost you the leadership in the audio industry, say in 5 years from now.

Think about it, you probably put in a lot of effort to bring forth compato to Windows Vista. Microsoft is dumping that OS slowly for Windows 7. Latter is just as dumb and old as Windows 95, XP and Vista. And to stay in the business they will need to come up with something much better. And they will. But how long will that take and how many mistrial Operating Systems is it going to take before they get there. As I see it, I as a Mac user have to pay money for digidesign to keep supporting various miscarriages of Windows Operating systems. I understand that you want to support windows and that it your choice but my understanding stops the minute where I realize that I am being crippled because you have to keep a lid on the Mac version of PT because of the turmoil in the Windows world.

Separate the development into Mac and Windows and for God's sake ------- unleash the power of OS X for Pro Tools.

[John_Toolbox]

You can instantiate 20 MOTU BPMs and once you hit play you will see the performance distribute nicely over the 8 cores or 16. However, and that is a huge however, if you set the midi-record enable to ON, on all 20 BPMs they will now be calculated on ONE core, thus not all distributed and Logic will either crash or play nothing. They only become distributed once Logic is in playback. They describe that in Logic's manual in way that makes sense too.

Wow. Very interesting. This normally doesn't affect me since I draw all of my midi instead of playing it, but good to know.

Think about it, you probably put in a lot of effort to bring forth compato to Windows Vista. Microsoft is dumping that OS slowly for Windows 7. Latter is just as dumb and old as Windows 95, XP and Vista. And to stay in the business they will need to come up with something much better. And they will. But how long will that take and how many mistrial Operating Systems is it going to take before they get there. As I see it, I as a Mac user have to pay money for digidesign to keep supporting various miscarriages of Windows Operating systems. I understand that you want to support windows and that it your choice but my understanding stops the minute where I realize that I am being crippled because you have to keep a lid on the Mac version of PT because of the turmoil in the Windows world.

Separate the development into Mac and Windows and for God's sake ------- unleash the power of OS X for Pro Tools.

I'm not a fan of windows myself, but Vista is usable, it just isn't as workflow friendly as OSX. One of the biggest problems I see with windows is they are still hanging on to XP. Why are you still able to buy XP, a 10 year old OS? This would be like apple still developing for G3's with OS9, all it does is hold back innovation on the newer OS.

Anyone that is still trying to support and develop for anything earlier than a core 2 duo seriously needs to look at just how much more powerful and efficient these new systems are, especially the nehalem/i7 stuff.

[pmklein]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Unfortunately, there are much more to this topic than meets the eye...

...Separate the development into Mac and Windows and for God's sake ------- unleash the power of OS X for Pro Tools.

Very nicely put, indeed!

[trombino]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Is digi updating Pro Tools for multi-threading?
Shouldn't Pro Tools already be written for hyperthreading?

If Digidesign is too retarded to write multithreading into Pro Tools, Snow Leopard's Grand Central Dispatch will take care of it?

Pro Tools is already multi-threaded (currently 84 threads on my machine with PT running in the background). My understanding is that Grand Central will make it trivial to turn multi-threaded apps into multi-core apps. I doubt it will be automatic - developers will probably have to use Grand Central APIs to make the magic happen.

[Mark Dann]

Windows support must end.

[Petevsi]

Originally Posted by Mark Dann

Windows support must end.

why? this would kill a lot of digi's market and reduces the amount of money they generate to use in R&D? A lot of the deep code used in the Mac and PC versions is very similar anyway since the use of the Intel processors in Mac. Just cause Protools started on Mac doesn't mean it should just stick to Mac
Pete