mic pre amp or digi 003 ?

[bonzerboy]

Well I have built up things in my little home studio. I have the digi 003. I have a friend who is more into this than I am and say i should get a good mic pre amp. I am going to be recording more acoustic instruments and i have several mics/phantom power in the 200 dollar range. He said if I got a good mic pre that it could make the mics sound better. Is this true? or would I be just throwing money away? I thought the 1-4 channels of the digi 003 were for that? Any suggestions, comments or ideas? thanks

[albee1952]

This is a can of worms, but I will offer my 2 cents(and I use the 003). The quality of your recordings is only as good as the weakest link. $200 mics and the 003 preamps are a good way to start honing your skills. With good sources and a decent sounding room, you can get decent recordings for sure(and you can get crap recordings with all the best gear). Having said that, having 1 or 2 really good mics and preamps can give a serious boost to your sounds. My AT2020 sounded quite nice thru a UA LA-610 preamp($1500). My MXL V89($400) sounded much better. Miktek C7 and CV4 sound better still, but cost more money(C7 is $899, CV4 is $1299). Do you want a preamp that is really clean or one that has some "character"? I really love my Five Fish X12 preamps(voiced like the API 312). I also have a Vintech 573(Neve-style) but its a little too "fuzzy' lately. The X12 is very "up front" and I use it for all acoustic and vocal recording. I also use a Focusrite ISA-428(really clean without a lot of character) for bass and some drum mics(the X12 gets the snare). My keyboards still go line into the 003. Check around locally to see if you can borrow or rent stuff to audition(its nice to hear before you buy). I am fortunate to live near Nashville where I can rent anything you ever heard of. Since Miktek is based here, I was able to borrow and audition their mics(and bought 2).

[bonzerboy]

Thanks for your feed back, i think i want cleaner sounding, as opposed to color but who knows. I see what you are sayong. My one buddy was trying to be helpful and his mind set was yes I have 200 dollars mics but a good pre amp could help out. Some things to think about for sure.

[albee1952]

1 plus about an external preamp is, it would allow you to track thru the ART compressor. I use the VLA II with NOS Mullard tubes during tracking and set it gently(3:1 and 3-4db of reduction). Its a little protection against clips and gives a bit of improvement to vocals and acoustic tracks(both to MY ears, and for the clients). Just don't overdo compression during record, as you can't undo it after the fact. Take a peek at http://www.fivefishaudio.com/ especially if you like to solder(some of their stuff is available in kit form). I have been impressed with the value(and the sound). I would have built my own but I wanted the API rack(and those versions are not sold in kit form). The beauty of the API and Neve clones is that USUALLY, if you drive them gently(output up full, GAIN backed off) they will give you clean. Then you can get the character by driving the input harder and backing down the output(so you don't clip the track).

[bonzerboy]

After giving much thought and taking a look at some mic pres I am going to go with the Joe Meek twin Q.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by bonzerboy

After giving much thought and taking a look at some mic pres I am going to go with the Joe Meek twin Q.

Heard good stuff about it

[YYR123]

Albee - is ur LA-610 just the mic pre or do u have the mic pre coupled with the comp?

B/C I have been looking at these all week !!! Hahah

[ejwells]

The LA-610 is a mic pre and compressor in one box.
It's a 610 pre and an LA-2A compressor
And a dandy little box it is:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LA610mk2

The 6176 is also a fine channel strip:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/6176/

I sort of miss mine (I've owned both of them over the years)
I now have a 2-610, an 1176LN, and a 4-710d.
UA's stuff is great.

[aka21stCentury]

I'd choose a Studio Projects 3 pattern or variable pattern... as a starter. But variable-pattern mics with a wide figure eight and a cardiode for starters. Omni for vocal room.

Not in this lifetime would I track vocals straight into any onboard Digi pre w/o an analogue tracking limiter... but I would try a dynamic mic with built-in pres. An EV RE-20, that would be one option (alternatively a Sennheiser 409 or new e609 large diaphram dynamic) to try straight in.

The original SC-2 is still used today out of digital to half-track and/or back in A-D as a leveler, compressor... as Fletcher could never hold custom transformers in stock for spare parts. Never had enough parts in stock as he sold out every unit he's ever built. He is a genius and always changing designs... so in that regard, PMI in LA at least has parts for their Joe Meek line... where Fletcher was always tinkering, making changes so those custom transformers are sonic gold (iron actually).

If you have an original, I would not tour with it, or even drop it in a shuttle bag or let it out of your hands. Sometimes you can solder the broken leg (metal fatigue). All wave soldered these days --- transformers, too much assembly to bolt into the chassis. No one can buy decent metal anymore except the military, sad but true.

I think everyone will end up buying a Module Expansion Rack eventually as this is the most economical way for innovative designers to release product. So look into the Tonelux MP5a or Q... perhaps even CLM Dynamics will turn to modules.

... thanks Albee for that link. I've built some Ramsey kits for students (radio broadcasting) will look into it... not to mention HAM radio Heathkits back in the day when lead was not just in the solder.

TODD AO chose Tonelux for a new ADR console. Stills the ATB32 Toft (Trident UK) desk. So analogue is alive and well, all about the musical EQ and Mic Amps IMO and the feel of the long throw faders... less about the converters nowdays... ever see what Neil runs his final mixes through?
http://www.uaudio.com/blog/john-nowland-ua-interview/ (analogue juju).

Fletcher talks about 'that sound' and again mentions this mysterious component yet understood: Joe Meek said: "If it sounds right, it is right!"

I'd use the Twin's compressor to finalize your mix, locked to stereo, like an SC-2... but not sure if I'd engage the EQ then. Better to compress individual frequency bands when mastering, but I haven't played with Fletcher's Meekalizer. But what an awesome DI input for bass guitar, even 335 leads sound amazing straight, the old VC-1 brick had an enhancer which I didn't care for much. I'd like to fiddle with the Meekalizer though.

That smaller Tonelux console is a perfect size too, about the size of my old TEAC Series 5... and that had great mic-amps for EV dynamic mics (like the 667a). Regret giving that up. Fletcher --> http://www.tfpro.com/