Possible Console 1 and TC-2290-DT conflict

[James Steele]

**UPDATE 9/17/24 *** Three months later this looks like it was finally FIXED by Softube. See last post in the thread. New version 2.5.90 of Console 1 System looks like it fixed this!!!


I had been having problems where projects that would get stuck on loading. I thought that it was a Console 1 issue, because if I removed any instances of Console 1 in a project they would open every time. Otherwise it might open after five... six... seven tries of getting stuck, force quitting and trying again. I would also have an instance of TC Electronics TC-2290 delay plugin following Console 1 on lead vocal track.

I spent hours today trying to finally bear down and experiment and get to the bottom of it. When Pro Tools would get stuck and I would force quit, the next time I launched Pro Tools would tell me that TC-2290 caused the problem. I didn't really believe this because I had projects with TC-2290 in it that never got stuck... always opened.

So here's the thing that I think might be key: I'm using the version of TC-2290 that has the little hardware controller that connects via USB. And Console 1 *also* has a hardware controller. I suspect that somehow both of those plugins making connection to their USB hardware controllers is causing this issue.

Interestingly I'm pretty sure I had projects with ONLY Console 1 and no TC-2290 get stuck as well. What seemed to solve the issue for me tonight was to move the TC-2290 plugin completely OUT of the Plugins folder so Pro Tools doesn't even have it ready. After that, it seems I'm rock solid.

I can also use TC-2290 in a project with Softube plugins that do NOT access the Console 1 hardware controller. That's no problem.

Anyway... this might be a TC issue or a Softube issue, but one reason why I think Avid might need to look at this is because Console 1 and TC-2290-DT (both using their hardware controllers attached to USB) coexist without any problems in all the other Mac DAWs I've used this combo on: Logic Pro 11, Cubase 13, and Digital Performer 11.31.

I really would like to use both my Console 1 and TC-2290 in Pro Tools. For now I have to give ONE of them up, so it's a lot easier to give up a delay plug... but I really do have some of my favorite delays on there. It make sense now why nobody else had this problem. Probably not a lot of PT users using Console 1 AND the TC 2290 with the desktop controller. I have no idea if there might be similar interactions with TC's other plugs that have hardware controllers as well. I do have an 8210 but don't really use it so haven't tested this.

[albee1952]

Hmmm, taking a wild guess here, but maybe its a USB issue? Are both pieces of hardware powered via their USB connection? Are they plugged directly into the computer or into a hub? If its a hub, is it powered from the wall? Whatever the connection setup, try changing it(all I can think of at the moment)

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Hmmm, taking a wild guess here, but maybe its a USB issue? Are both pieces of hardware powered via their USB connection? Are they plugged directly into the computer or into a hub? If its a hub, is it powered from the wall? Whatever the connection setup, try changing it(all I can think of at the moment)

Good suggestions. They are both in a powered hub. I believe I've actually tried direct connecting at least one of them straight to the computer. I can try again. FWIW, however the reason I posted here is that they coexist just fine in at least three other Mac DAWs: Logic Pro 11, Digital Performer 11.31 and Cubase 13. So this combo seems to only cause issues with Pro Tools.

[James Steele]

Just to add... Console 1 is directly connected to the Mac Studio. The desktop controller for the TC-2290 was on a powered hub.

[pbthias]

...just a few days ago I was thinking about buying the TC delay unit.
But I also use Console 1 quite a lot.... Thanks for the info!
Hope this gets fixed...

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by pbthias

...just a few days ago I was thinking about buying the TC delay unit.
But I also use Console 1 quite a lot.... Thanks for the info!
Hope this gets fixed...

It's a strange one. I almost wishyou did buy it so there'd be another user out there who could confirm this is happening to them, too, but I don't blame you for being hesitant. This is just what is happening on MY system and it's obviously very unique. Probably very few users running into this particular issue since it requires a unique combo of plugins and hardware to manifiest.

I'm out of town now so can't do it right now, but I'm intending to do some experimenting and perhaps putting the Console 1 on the same hub with the TC controller, or try to somehow see if I can cobble together a workaround (maybe using adapters or USB 2.0 hub, etc.) in case Avid can't address this. I doubt they have a TC-2290-DT to check this with.

[pbthias]

You say you only got it fixed when removing the plugin completly?
So sessions would also get stuck if the TC USB hardware controller is NOT connected?
(Because in that case the problem could be reproduced by simply installing the trial version)

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by pbthias

You say you only got it fixed when removing the plugin completly?
So sessions would also get stuck if the TC USB hardware controller is NOT connected?
(Because in that case the problem could be reproduced by simply installing the trial version)

I haven't tried that. I need to double-check all the results, but in order to keep the projects containing Console 1 from getting stuck during load, I had to remove the TC-2290-DT plugin from the Plugins folder. I never tried leaving the plugin in the Plugin folder and disconnecting the hardware controller. I'll try that in a couple days. Right now I'm out of town and can't test this.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by pbthias

You say you only got it fixed when removing the plugin completly?
So sessions would also get stuck if the TC USB hardware controller is NOT connected?
(Because in that case the problem could be reproduced by simply installing the trial version)

Okay... well because both Console 1 and TC-2290 are both important to my workflow I just now finished some extensive digging into the issue. To eliminate one variable right from the start, whether the TC-2290-DT's hardware controller was connected or not seems to make zero difference.

I found some very interesting thiings:

1) Apparently I was wrong about needing to remove TC-2290-DT entirely from the Plug-Ins/TC/ folder. It can stay there. The problems arise when you use it in a session that contains an instance of Console 1.

2) If I have a mono audio track and Console 1 (mono) is on Insert A and TC-2290-DT (mono-to-stereo) is on Insert B and I save the session, that session will indeed get stuck when attempting to re-open it. You might get lucky and have it open once out of 7-8 times.

3) Reversing the order in inserts on the same track (for example, TC-2290-DT (mono) on Insert A and Console 1 (mono) on Insert B does not help. Session will still get stuck opening.

So far, what is certain is an instance of Console 1 and TC-2290 on the same track will cause the "stuck on session open" issue regardless of insert order.

This is where it got more interesting.

I duplicated the mono audio track (vocal, FWIW) and then set up both tracks as follows:

The first mono audio track (from left to right) had Console 1 on Insert A and nothing else. On the second track I put PSP InfiniStrip (mono) on Insert A and then TC-2290-DT (mono-to-stereo) on Insert B. I then saved the session. Sometimes the session will open properly, but if you quite Pro Tools and then attempt to open it, it will get stuck loading. In this case, again, even with Console 1 and TC-2290-DT on different tracks, the session got stuck opening and I had to force quit Pro Tools.

Okay... so NOW the interesting part. It seems during session opening, Pro Tools "restores" tracks in the order of their position (from left to right) in the Mixing Board. This is why I mentioned the order of the tracks in the last example.

So... I moved TC-2290-DT out of Plug-Ins/TC so I could open that session again, then I moved the second track with PSP InfiniStrip and TC-2290 to the left of the track with Console 1 on it and saved the session, and quit Pro Tools. I then put TC-2290-DT back into Plug-Ins/TC. I then launched Pro Tools, and then the same session opened with no problem. I did this a few times in a row to make sure it worked.

So what seems to be going on is that—during session opening—as long as a track containing TC-2290-DT is restored BEFORE any tracks containing Console 1, the session will open. However, if Pro Tools restores a track containing Console 1 first... the session will get stuck when it attempts to restore the track containing TC-2290-DT.

I also have TC-8210-DT but have not yet tried this experiment with it to see if it also has this issue.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by James Steele

I also have TC-8210-DT but have not yet tried this experiment with it to see if it also has this issue.

Preliminary experiment just now seems to indicate that the TC-8210-DT reverb plugin exhibits the same problem. I plan to test some TC plugs that don't have the hardware controller to see if that's truly a factor or coincidence.

It may be worth noting that the TC plugs that come with the hardware controller use those controllers as a form of authorization. They will run for a while without the controller connected, but every so often (months I think?) they need to "see" the controller to remain authorized.