2x NVMe SSDs on Mac Studio M1 Max

[samplaire]

Hi,

In short:

Have you tried to add 2 NVMe SSDs in 40Gbps Orico enclosures to your Mac Studio M1 Max? With a success? No random ejects?

This enclosure:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwlIkex

Explanation:

I have one of these and it works great when connected to one of the rear TB ports.

I have also two 10Gbps Orico enclosures (https://allegro.pl/oferta/obudowa-ze...me-12882873450) + NVMe SSDs inside but I have to connect them via the front usb-c connector (via a 10Gbps hub).

The system: one 40Gbps SSD in a TB port + two 10Gbps SSDs (via a hub) in the front usb-c port is rock solid (~2600 for the TB and ~650 for the usb-c).

When I plug the hub to the rear TB port alongside the 40Gbps SSD I get faster transfer rates for the two 10Gbps SSDs (around 700-800) but I get random disconnections so I can’t use this combination.


What I want to achieve is having two 40Gbps enclosures connected to the TB ports. Is this combination stable? Thanks for your answers in advance.

[sw rec]

I have two of them (M.2 drives on pci-e cards) plus a UA OCTO card in a Sonnet expansion chassis.
Sorry, should have clarified. Flawless.
More expensive, for sure, but it’s worth it to not have any reliability issues.

[Darryl Ramm]

Multiple possibilities here.

Maybe useful info missing: What exact make/model hub? What exact make/model cables? What exact make/model SSDs etc.
m. What macOS version is the system running. Are the SSDs formatted APFS? Have you checked the firmware on the SSDs are up to date? (I would be using Samsung 980 Pro or 990 Pro.)

USB-C cables… can be incredibly fragile/unreliable. You are buying this enclosure with cables? I bet none of those cables are certified Thunderbolt 3/4 cables.

The enclosures… if not just potentially unreliable/more minor brand why buy this kind of stuff off Aliexpress. Is it even fake knock offs of other chineesium stuff? If you had purchased say OWC enclosures from OWC or a trusted reseller you would have access to a decent customer support organization. You also would be much more likely to find other users here with an identical setup.

Same with hubs/docks… I would be using OWC or Sonnet products, but certainly nothing purchased off Aliexpress.

The system is possibly sleeping or allowing the drives to sleep. Should all be disabled in Pro Tools optimization. Check that now.

The monitors are possibly sleeping and that is causing a power glitch. A known issue that has for example caused other non-storage problems for users here. But users elsewhere report this causing disk disconnects. Just set the monitors to never sleep or screen save and see what happens.

You should try with all other peripherals possible disconnected. Including removing all but one display.

There are possibly issues with macOS, many many (often confused) threads in online forums suspecting especially Monterey. I would try the latest Ventura.

I’ve been recommending for years on DUC 1. As much as the price hurts just spend the money on internal Apple SSD. 2. Use powered Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 expansion chassis for M.2 SSDs… does not mean that there will never be issues but not being bus powered is just a good place to be. Quality design and manufacturing. And again access to a great support organization.

But ultimately this has nothing to do with Pro Tools, after trying stuff above you might just search other forums about this. Or start over with hardware from manufacturers who should be able to provide you with some support.

[BScout]

Still seeing power issues on the various USB ports on Apple ARM computers.
That's the issue -- underpowered ports for some gear. A quick fix is putting a self-powered thunderbolt dock in between and then use the USB off of the dock.
Only people who are going to be able to fix this is Apple with a future firmware update rolled into a macOS release. IF it is even fixable via firmware.

(So far seen issues on both M1 and M2 Mac Studios and the laptops. May be issues with the minis but all of ours are heavily connected with Thunderbolt docks to give enough ports. I only know 2 people with the new Mac Studio but I'll ask one to check -- it's easy to check with a USB flash drive)

[samplaire]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Multiple possibilities here.

Maybe useful info missing: What exact make/model hub? What exact make/model cables? What exact make/model SSDs etc.
m. What macOS version is the system running. Are the SSDs formatted APFS? Have you checked the firmware on the SSDs are up to date? (I would be using Samsung 980 Pro or 990 Pro.)

USB-C cables… can be incredibly fragile/unreliable. You are buying this enclosure with cables? I bet none of those cables are certified Thunderbolt 3/4 cables.

The enclosures… if not just potentially unreliable/more minor brand why buy this kind of stuff off Aliexpress. Is it even fake knock offs of other chineesium stuff? If you had purchased say OWC enclosures from OWC or a trusted reseller you would have access to a decent customer support organization. You also would be much more likely to find other users here with an identical setup.

Same with hubs/docks… I would be using OWC or Sonnet products, but certainly nothing purchased off Aliexpress.

The system is possibly sleeping or allowing the drives to sleep. Should all be disabled in Pro Tools optimization. Check that now.

The monitors are possibly sleeping and that is causing a power glitch. A known issue that has for example caused other non-storage problems for users here. But users elsewhere report this causing disk disconnects. Just set the monitors to never sleep or screen save and see what happens.

You should try with all other peripherals possible disconnected. Including removing all but one display.

There are possibly issues with macOS, many many (often confused) threads in online forums suspecting especially Monterey. I would try the latest Ventura.

I’ve been recommending for years on DUC 1. As much as the price hurts just spend the money on internal Apple SSD. 2. Use powered Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 expansion chassis for M.2 SSDs… does not mean that there will never be issues but not being bus powered is just a good place to be. Quality design and manufacturing. And again access to a great support organization.

But ultimately this has nothing to do with Pro Tools, after trying stuff above you might just search other forums about this. Or start over with hardware from manufacturers who should be able to provide you with some support.

Thank you for your deep explanation. This all I know however because prior to asking here I did a wide research in the net forums. Countless threads, articles and so on. I didn’t want to bore you with all of this. Many of the solution advises base on bad cables but most of the questions are like this ‚my Intel Mac works great with such and such enclosure and my new Mac m1 not’. In my case - the enclosure works great when alone. So this is not a bad cable issue.

As BScout said (Thanks!) the problem is in the Mac but this is anither story and as sw_rec said (Thanks!!!) and answered my question directly - chances are 2 of the enclosures work ok together.

I didn’t buy them on aliexpress, the link was informational. All the mentioned Orico enclosures (which are recommended on countless sites) come with cables marked 40, 10 or 6Gbps respectivetly. I have Lexar NM620 SSDs inside (2 or 1TB). My Mac studio was at my budget’s max. OWC and Sonnettech stuff is of great quality, I know but still beyond my budget. My system specs are listed in my signature :)

[samplaire]

Originally Posted by sw rec

I have two of them plus a UA OCTO card in a Sonnet expansion chassis. Flawless.
More expensive, for sure, but it’s worth it to not have any reliability issues.

Do I understand it correctly? You have the UAD in a sonnettech chassis connected to one Mac M1 TB port and two Orico enclosures connected to the next Mac TB ports?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by samplaire

Do I understand it correctly? You have the UAD in a sonnettech chassis connected to one Mac M1 TB port and two Orico enclosures connected to the next Mac TB ports?

No sw_rec has two M2 cards in a 3 PCIe slot Sonnet chassis, same setup I run (in multiple different Sonnet chassis). Not being bus powered may avoid issues.

You've got a good picture of the issues.

Sorry I jumped at the Aliexpress mention, there is just so much fake/bad stuff on there (and on EBay).

I would still be careful with cables. Cables marked as something are not always what they say. And USB-C connectors esp. can be fragile. It might be worth quickly excluding cables, but I suspect you've already done most of that. At least make sure they seat OK, are not sensitive to being handled etc.. I've had two USB-C/Thunderbolt cables that have had issues, one after a lot of handling with a Samsung X5 that was plugged and unplugged daily for about a year, and one that never really felt like it seated properly and would be intermittent (came with a LG Thunderbolt display). Maybe nice to have a genuine Apple cable to test with.

Needing at times 12TB, sometimes 20TB or more (more for development/testing work, not audio) I just could not trust running with separate M.2 cards in adapters and all those cables--yes even if multiple M2 drives in single adapters on dedicated Thunderbolt buses is the top performance config, and at maybe lowest total price (an amusing irony).

And it also may still be worth removing other peripheral and stopping the monitor sleeping just in case that is triggering or making worse the problems here. (Again it's a known cause of power glitches that can affect Thunderbolt peripherals... a user here just saw that).

[sw rec]

“ No sw_rec has two M2 cards in a 3 PCIe slot Sonnet chassis.”

Precisely. Darryl, your recommended setup is working splendidly.

[samplaire]

Thank you guys! That makes sense.

Darryl, sorry not for answering you about the system power saving settings. I have all of the sleep settings set to off as advised. I was really prepared prior to asking you here. So the issue with the random disconnections is underpowered buss related I assume. I asked tou because In the flood of many thoughts, advises, reviews there are no as mine which is interesting by the way. ;-)

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by samplaire

T All the mentioned Orico enclosures (which are recommended on countless sites) come with cables marked 40, 10 or 6Gbps respectivetly.

AFAIK, Mac can not do 40Gb via USB-protocol. For 40Gb you'll need a true Thunderbolt 3 enclosure and TB cables. Mac will max out at 10Gb with USB. And I'm not talking about the connector type.
USB is more unreliable than TB due to the lax standards. Get TB3. It should improve things. USB is usually more flakey.

F