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  #31  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:31 AM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
Actually, Eric, that opinion is not factual. The marketplace is just selling a lot of hot air for those of us who have large production needs. Each HDX connector is 32IO. That’s a given and you’ll notice nobody makes anything with fewer than two of them anymore. Focusrite, however, sells boxes with two HDX (64 IO) and Dante (32 IO). WHY?!?!?! What are they thinking? Adding a D64R, as they suggest, takes that MADI port to give Dante’s full, NORMAL capacity. So, you now have 64 Dante into 64 HDX, with no available MADI port and a paltry 16 local analog IO. That just doesn’t cut it.
Because both of the MiniDigilink connectors on the Red interfaces are PRIMARY connectors. You can't attach an expansion module to them the way you can an HD I/O. You connect both of the Primary DigiLink connectors on the Red interfaces to both of the Digilink connectors on an HD Native box or HDX card to get 64 channels into Protools from a single box.

You can route the 16 analog inputs as well as 16 ADAT inputs (at 48k, or 8 at 96k) to Protools through the Digilink connectors, and then ALSO route 32 channels of additional inputs from Dante through the Second Digilink connector. To give you 64 channels of I/O at 48k, or 56 at 96k (actually, it would be 58 if you route the two-S/PDIF inputs also).

In Protools the Red interface appears as Four 16 channel HD I/O units if you have both Digilink connectors connected to your HDN or HDX card. They come up as HD I/O A, B, C, or D.

You can grab any inputs on the Dante network, or use a D64R and an HD32R to connect 64 channels of MADI and convert them to Dante to input into Protools.

If you don't need the analog/ADAT I/O on the Red interface, you can route it's internal 32 channels of Dante to it's first Digilink port, and then connect an HD32R to the second Digilink port of the HDN or HDX card for another 32 channels of Dante.

There are ways to do what you want.

But you aren't going to get 32 channels of analog I/O, as well as 64 channels of Dante, PLUS 64 channels of MADI at the same time, unless you have an HDX 3 set up.
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  #32  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
All of those formats need to have access to 64HDX IO for me to do my shows. Note, I’m not asking for 160 simultaneous IO, but some combination of 64 total, simultaneously assignable to HDX, split among the formats of Dante, MADI, and 32 available analog IO.
Look at my post above. You can do exactly that in 3U from Focusrite, with a couple of 8 channel ADAT preamps, and an 8 channel analog mic preamp, so 6U total, plus power conditioner and patch panels, snakes, etc..

Red 8 Pre, HD32R, D64R. That's 64 channels into Protools HD Native or HDX split among 32 channels of analog I/O, and Dante, with MADI getting fed into the Dante network.

The great thing is that it also allows for redundant recording by using DVS for a secondary Protools system which can be synced by the included Satellite Link Function.

I've done it. it works. It's easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
If you have lots of spare time, you can look for an alternative solution. I’ve put a couple hundred hours into it. Many will drop the $30K on MATRIX and have no alternate DAW choice. That seems extreme to me.
If you don't have the time; I'm willing to fly down to Florida for a week and put a system together for you and configure and test it. I'll charge a lot less than $30k, even including the cost of the hardware. I'm experienced working with both Dante and MADI, Protools HD and can solder and build network cables. I'm also Dante certified and have designed and installed other Dante based systems, including my own mobile recording system.
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Last edited by JCBigler; 09-16-2021 at 11:50 AM.
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  #33  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:55 PM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
Many will drop the $30K on MATRIX and have no alternate DAW choice. That seems extreme to me.
I moved from the Red 16 Line to the MTRX, because it had too few Dante channels.
I didn't drop 30k on the MTRX- the critical conversion uses MTRX converters (mic pre's), the rest is over Dante (outboard and synths).
I have 16 channels of IO in the MTRX and 48 channels of Dante conversion and 32 channels of H9000 Dante conversion.
I also have the Dante expansion card in the MTRX.
It was around £15k for all the MTRX cards and the unit itself.
My Dante converters cost about £5k plus £6k for the H9000.

For an alternate DAW I use the Rednet PCIEr card (£800 retail).
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  #34  
Old 09-16-2021, 02:38 PM
Artysan Artysan is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by uptheoctave View Post
I moved from the Red 16 Line to the MTRX, because it had too few Dante channels.
I didn't drop 30k on the MTRX- the critical conversion uses MTRX converters (mic pre's), the rest is over Dante (outboard and synths).
I have 16 channels of IO in the MTRX and 48 channels of Dante conversion and 32 channels of H9000 Dante conversion.
I also have the Dante expansion card in the MTRX.
It was around £15k for all the MTRX cards and the unit itself.
My Dante converters cost about £5k plus £6k for the H9000.

For an alternate DAW I use the Rednet PCIEr card (£800 retail).
I realize that my exact IO needs can be hard to grasp, but charted out as I have them, they still are not satisfied by any of the ‘simple’ solutions being offered. Make no mistake though, they are appreciated.

My needs are a matrix with 64 Dante, 64 MADI, and 32 (not 16!) Analog IO - 160 always available channels in and out; which can route to/fro either 64 HDX of PT HD OR 64 TB/USB3 computer IO. It’s not that complicated but the numbers are cast in stone for me, and portability is paramount. Antelope offers a solution, purportedly, but can’t or won’t discuss it pre-sales.

Focusrite is very accessible and helpful, but presents a rapidly growing kluge of size and weight at twice the price. Certainly anyone here offering ideas can understand that might be disqualfying for me.

I really appreciate the feedback here. Just please take note of my needs described above before telling me it’s a cinch. If it was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And again, thank you for all your efforts.
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  #35  
Old 09-16-2021, 03:26 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
Actually, Eric, that opinion is not factual. The marketplace is just selling a lot of hot air for those of us who have large production needs. Each HDX connector is 32IO. That’s a given and you’ll notice nobody makes anything with fewer than two of them anymore. Focusrite, however, sells boxes with two HDX (64 IO) and Dante (32 IO). WHY?!?!?! What are they thinking? Adding a D64R, as they suggest, takes that MADI port to give Dante’s full, NORMAL capacity. So, you now have 64 Dante into 64 HDX, with no available MADI port and a paltry 16 local analog IO. That just doesn’t cut it.
Maybe you need to reign in your expectation for a one box solution? The fact that so few devices do what you want would suggest there’s not much market for one.
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  #36  
Old 09-16-2021, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

$ but nice. PrismSound, Dream 128.
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2021, 06:30 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Man, you're talking about a lot of hardware capability there.

You basically want an all-in-one-do-everything-in-one-box unit. The laws of product marketing just don't work that way.

And to your point, You can get what you want with 3U of Focusrite:
Red 8Pre/16Line
HD32R
and D64R

That's 3U, costs about $500 less than the Antelope Galaxy 64. You can save more if you can find them on the refurb Focusrite Pro site.
The Galaxy 64 absolutely annihilates your suggested Focusrite setup in terms of functionality, though. It is a 128 channel HDX interface, 64 channel thunderbolt interface, 64 channel Dante interface, 64 channel madi interface, and has 64 channels of AD/DA to connect to a large format console.

...and you can use them all at the same time! There is a big ol' FPGA mixer with FX right in the middle of all that I/O, with full routing matrix that allows you to route any input to any output, including using the FPGA FX as hardware inserts on any DAW or even the analogue console, construct headphone mixes, do format conversion. It does it all. The Galaxy 64 is a 388 I/O box that allows you to use every single one of them at any given time.

Avid and DAD are doing exactly the same with their current devices. The MTRX Studio might only have 64 channels of digilink on it, but it is effectively a 154 I/O device. The addition of a full routing matrix inside the box makes it far more than even just a 154 I/O device because you can quickly and easily multi signals to go to various places.

The Focusrite boxes are just wasted I/O city by comparison.
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2021, 11:22 AM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
The Galaxy 64 absolutely annihilates your suggested Focusrite setup in terms of functionality, though. It is a 128 channel HDX interface, 64 channel thunderbolt interface, 64 channel Dante interface, 64 channel madi interface, and has 64 channels of AD/DA to connect to a large format console.

...and you can use them all at the same time! There is a big ol' FPGA mixer with FX right in the middle of all that I/O, with full routing matrix that allows you to route any input to any output, including using the FPGA FX as hardware inserts on any DAW or even the analogue console, construct headphone mixes, do format conversion. It does it all. The Galaxy 64 is a 388 I/O box that allows you to use every single one of them at any given time.

Avid and DAD are doing exactly the same with their current devices. The MTRX Studio might only have 64 channels of digilink on it, but it is effectively a 154 I/O device. The addition of a full routing matrix inside the box makes it far more than even just a 154 I/O device because you can quickly and easily multi signals to go to various places.

The Focusrite boxes are just wasted I/O city by comparison.
Do Antelope's drivers still suck though?
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2021, 06:18 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Do Antelope's drivers still suck though?

I'm not sure it entirely matters. Digilink devices all use the same HD driver. The Galaxy 64 works in standalone mode with a control app. Installing the thunderbolt drivers is entirely optional.
It's worth the punt, if you ask me. At least the Galaxy 64 has a chance of thunderbolt and digilink audio working at the same time.

I used a Zen Studio for two years and never had an issue with it. It was a walk in the park compared to my recent experiences with updating firmware on a HDN card. The only complaint I have seen about the Galaxy 64 is from a user who was cranky at Antelope for releasing the Galaxy 32. The 64 halves Dante channel counts when sample rates are increased. The 32 doesn't do that.
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