Please Help - connecting/routing Focusrite 18i20 with Behringer 8000

[TDub]

Hello,
For years, I had my Digi002 working great with the Behringer 8000 to give me an additional 8 channels. At the time, I had the Behringer set as Slave and my Digi002 as master.
Since upgrading my PT version, I can no longer use the Digi002 so purchased a Focusrite 18i20 4th gen. I'm now trying to get the two working together, but no luck. I've watched every video I could find online, but to no avail. I BELIEVE my issue lies in the set up in Focusrite's Control 2 interface. Most videos online show Focusrite Control, but with the 4th gen 18i20, its Control 2 which looks a bit different. This 4th gen also has a Talkback function which seems to add 2 additional outs.
Here's what I've done:
1. connected from the Optical OUT on Behringer to Optical IN on the 18i20 and another toslink from the In on behringer to out on 18i20 (I believe I just need the first one, but for whatever reason, I had both with the Digi and Behringer, so doing the same)
2. Set Behringer switch on back to SLAVE
3. Opened Focusrite CONTROL 2 software and went to Preferences and set the clock to INTERNAL so it would use the clock of the 18i20 as Master (the other option in the drop down is ADAT, but that is supposedly if you decide to use the Behringer as your Master clock and 18i20 as Slave). Set sample at 44.1. Note that in image, it shows top right that it the 2 units are Synced. (if shut off Behringer, that greys out, so it seems to recognize it and is synced). See screenshot here: https://imgur.com/a/ZafGH97
4. As far as the OUTPUT section of the Focusrite Control 2 panel, it is confusing as heck ... and I assume maybe this is where things are going wrong, but not sure.Here is what it looks like as default ... not sure what I'm to do here, none of videos online helped. See output settings here: https://imgur.com/a/oodV9Az
5. Once I then go back to the Inputs tab on Focusrite Control2, and scroll over to see my ADAT inputs, something odd is happening: there appears to be a signal coming through all 8 inputs. You can see in this screenshot, and live, its jittering as if a signal is coming through. https://imgur.com/a/5Yr8cAE
6. Anyhow, if I then open PT and go to my Setup > IO settings, here is what it looks like. If I do plug a mic into one of the Behringer inputs, and arm record a track, there is no signal coming through. Here are I/O settings as they are now (you can see the digital inputs seem to start at 13 which coincides with what shows in Control2 Inputs when you see the jittering signal): https://imgur.com/a/NsoVkzI

I'm lost and have spent hours on this. I don't remember this being difficult at all when I paired the Behringer with the Digi002, but this is a nightmare.

If anyone has any experience/suggestions, I'd really appreciate it. Hoping this is enough detail to explain my situation, but let me know if there's anything else that may help.

tdub

[Darryl Ramm]

And you are doing this with Pro Tools Intro? Even though I warned you in your other threads in the past here about different Pro Tools versions input limitations and pointed you at the free Pro Tools Ultimate trial?

You also asked the question days ago in another thread and got a helpful answer and here you are asking it in a separate thread again. Why? (Edit and to correct myself what Kev told you there is correct, even if not what the Avid's product companion webpage implies, this limit *is* for inputs and outputs).

Intro has a limit of the first 4 physical IO.
Artist has a limit of the first 16 physical IO, I have even explained to you on another thread how that will mean at 44.1 or 48kHz you will not be able to use the last two ADAT inputs in your setup if you use Artist.
Studio has a limit of the first 64 physical IO.
Ultimate has a limit of the first 256 physical IO.

Please follow the DUC rules about creating only a single thread for a problem. Maybe a mod can merge some of your recent threads together to avoid wasting other peoples time.

[TDub]

Sorry Darryl.
I didn't mean to waste anyone's time.
I didn't think this was the same issue. I assumed I could stick connect the ADAT but just use 4 of the inputs.
Apologies.

[Darryl Ramm]

I don't know how anybody could have made this clearer.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And another annoyance with Intro and all Pro Tools versions, is if you exceed the number of active inputs allowed (4 for Intro) in any Pro Tools tier then it does not warn the user, just no audio is recorded on those tracks. It's very annoying user-hostile behavior.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

One of the limitation with Pro Tools Artist is the limit of 16 "simultaneous audio inputs" but Avid does a poor job of explaining what that means. The gotcha there is Pro Tools only allows use of the first 16 inputs the audio device presents, you can't pick and choose what inputs to use if the device has more than 16 inputs. If using ADAT at 44.1 or 48kHz with an 18i20 that means the last two ADAT inputs are not available. But then you do have all the other 18i20 inputs, that are probably better than many very low-cost ADAT preamps. Abelton products with input limitations at least let you pick which inputs are used. Some interfaces from other vendors allow you to reconfigure the I/O presented to the DAW which can work around this.

Originally Posted by K Roche

4 Simultaneous Inputs and Outputs

[edit: and even more important Kev was correct here these limits apply to inputs and outputs, not what I was saying "inputs". I had got myself all confused, should have known better.]

Please get your act together.

[TDub]

My issue is more around how to configure the outputs of Focusrite Control 2 ... but it's fine. Once I upgrade I will figure out the output configuration.

[Darryl Ramm]

I've edited my replies above, I got myself started talking about inputs in one of those large past threads and then incorrectly stated these limits apply only to inputs. They apply to inputs and outputs, which is what Kev had posted warning about in the other thread you saw and replied to... then posted this seemingly duplicate thread. So I'm just not following why you have spent so long trying to troubleshoot something known not to work.

If you want to push the I/O limits I would personally upgrade to Studio, it's not just the I/O limits, it's also track limits that will be less than you are used to in old Pro Tools LE. Or upgrade to Artist if you are sure the limits won't affect you. Or you can test stuff for one month with Ultimate. I don't fault your ADAT troubleshooting efforts, but it's all just a total waste of your time because none of this ADAT I/O will work in Intro.

[its2loud]

The output designation in Focusrite Control is specifically for the physical outputs of the Focusrite only. They have nothing to do with the outputs designated in Pro Tools IO. You simply assign each physical outputs to the software (Playback) output of the DAW you’re using.

For example, if you had a 5.1 speaker system connected to the Focusrite, you would designate outputs 1-6 to Playback 1-6. Then in Pro Tools you assign your monitoring output for 5.1 and in IO map it to outputs 1-6.

You can create different mixes within FC if you want to but if you just want a straight 1 to 1 relationship between DAW output and Focusrite output then you assign each output an individual Playback number.

[TDub]

Thank you for your response, Its2Loud.
I now have PT Ultimate per Darryl's suggestion (so with all of the additional in/outs) and as suspected, that is not the issue. As you said, this is an issue I'm having with Focusrite Control 2 (which is the new version of Focusrite Control, now being used for 4th Gen 18i20), before I ever go into ProTools.
I spent hours on the weekend trying to get it to work and no luck. I remember it being so easy to connect the Behringer 8000 up to my Digi002 This is a nightmare and from what few videos I could find online, sounds like others have a hard time as well.
I've tried making the Behringer the slave and then the 18i20 the slave, when the first wasn't working. But I don't think it has anything to do with which is the master/slave. Its about the routing outputs/source inputs.

Here is a breakdown of how I have everything set up, if this helps and shared screenshot via imgur for all pieces I talk about below:
> optical cable going from Behringer ADAT Out to 18i20 ADAT in port
> Behringer set now set as Master (though tried as Slave as well) on back of unit at same 44.1k as Focusrite
> in Focusrite Control 2, Preferences, Clock source set to ADAT Port 1 (making the Behringer the master clock ... vs Internal); Digital Port mode set to Dual ADAT (not RCA/SPDIF) see here: https://imgur.com/a/YFx4UTU
> The Routing screen in Focusrite Control 2 (which I think is where the issue lies) gives options of connecting my Digital Outputs (adat 1; adat 2; etc) to the following sources: either ADAT 1-8, Analogue inputs 1-8,Playback (DAW) multiple options, etc. I currently have ADAT 1 to output to corresponding Source ADAT 1; ADAT 2 to ADAT 2; etc. (https://imgur.com/a/YFx4UTU)

No matter what routing options I choose for the Digital outputs, when I go over to the Inputs to see levels, it shows a constant signal coming through all 8 ADAT channels. https://imgur.com/a/YFx4UTU When I turn up headphones or speakers, its a loud humming noise. Even if I try plugging something (mic/guitar) into the Behringer and test it, it doesn't work, other than the constant buzz already there.

I know I must be doing something wrong in the routing, but I'm not sure what. As I said, I've watched the few youtube videos I've found trying to set it up (most are on older Focusrite Control 1, so looks different which is challenging), but none are solving my issue
Any help/guidance/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

thanks very much
Tdub

[its2loud]

These pictures don’t make a lot of sense to me. It too hard to tell what you’re doing or not doing here.

Why 44.1?

My first guess is you have some kind of feedback loop going on here between inputs and outputs.

PM me if you’d like to set up a Zoom call or something. I think a live assist would help in this situation.

[TDub]

A zoom call would be amazing! I will PM you.

I chose 44.1 here just as another effort, but I've tried 48 as well.

thanks for responding and I will PM you soon.