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  #1391  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:21 PM
Tweakhead Tweakhead is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Avid S6 M10 - from $21,995.00 - $62,395.00
Avid S6 M40 - from $61,830.00 - $112,950.00

er, . . . right. yah. mm-hmm.

(I could buy 2,305 Apple Mouses (Mice?, Meeces?) for that amount.)

I won't ever buy another control surface using a closed protocol. Particularly Avid.

I will try my damnedest to make sure none of my clients do either.
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  #1392  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:30 PM
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Southsidemusic Southsidemusic is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakhead View Post
Avid S6 M10 - from $21,995.00 - $62,395.00
Avid S6 M40 - from $61,830.00 - $112,950.00

er, . . . right. yah. mm-hmm.

(I could buy 2,305 Apple Mouses (Mice?, Meeces?) for that amount.)

I won't ever buy another control surface using a closed protocol. Particularly Avid


I will try my damnedest to make sure none of my clients do either.
Love the "Mouse" bending hehehe Meeces was a ROFLMAO for me

Sorry but the new S6 consoles are Eucon and will work with other DAW's aswell like Logic X. We asked the US sales reps directly and that was the answer we got.. So a HUGE step for Avid... And a small step for customers ..

Snipped from Avid CS pages :


Built on the same proven technology that is core to the industry-leading ICON and System 5 product families, the Avid S6 enables mixers to quickly turn around complex projects while swiftly handling last-minute changes. With its unparalleled ability to simultaneously control multiple Pro Toolsฎ and other EUCON™-enabled DAWs over simple Ethernet, S6 also speeds workflows and enables network collaboration on a single integrated platform.

edit: source here http://www.avid.com/US/press-room/Avid-Unveils-S6
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Last edited by Southsidemusic; 09-13-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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  #1393  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:48 PM
Tweakhead Tweakhead is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

What I meant about "closed protocol" is that nobody else can build a "Eucon" control surface. Not SSL, not Mackie, no-one.

Sure, the Avid surfaces will work with other software - but their's is still the only game they want anyone to play.

No thanks. Not after the way we've been treated.
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  #1394  
Old 09-13-2013, 07:20 PM
Kenny Gioia Kenny Gioia is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Tweakhead View Post

Sure, the Avid surfaces will work with other software - but their's is still the only game they want anyone to play.
Why would they allow other companies to compete with them if they don't have to?

Capitalism and competition exists when there's no way of controlling your brand.

No one is stopping Apple or Nuendo from creating (or buying) their own protocol and building large controllers around that. But they know that without Pro Tools, there's no market for it.

So Avid should just give that away?

Should they let other companies design HDX cards that work with Pro Tools as well?

The fact that the S6 works with all Eucon enabled DAWs is a great step towards avoiding the Control 24 - Pro Control situation.

If those units would still work with Logic or Nuendo but not Pro Tools 11, you could just switch DAWs and still have a working unit.
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  #1395  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:13 PM
wuzup wuzup is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Why would they allow other companies to compete with them if they don't have to?
They have no good reason to , and I wouldnt either
Its competing against there customers when they know we are in deep enough to not abandon our investments
Thats what we do not like or even respect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
So Avid should just give that away?
Basically they have the PT monopoly. Fair game i guess , we bought it.
Then when they use that monopoly on the industry as hardware ransom towards there customers YES THEY SHOULD give up that tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Should they let other companies design HDX cards that work with Pro Tools as well?
Absolutely not !
Should Cubas and Nuendo allow eucon
Same answer no !
Do they YES !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
The fact that the S6 works with all Eucon enabled DAWs is a great step towards avoiding the Control 24 - Pro Control situation.
When Eucon is EOL how does that avoid anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
If those units would still work with Logic or Nuendo but not Pro Tools 11, you could just switch DAWs and still have a working unit.
What about the HDX card , plugins and interfaces all of those are almost equal in value to a C/24 .
It would actually be at least a 300% increase in wasted money.
Dont forget you would still have to buy another daw and all your plugs in another format
__________________________________________________ ________________________

This is a critical time for Avid.
Answers like that just make matters worse . basically being talked down to and expected to believe non sense like this is actually treating us like dam fools.

As we have seen it 64bit all those other daws will be using 124bit way before pro tools does so actually 64bit eucon support will end in other daws before it does in pro tools.

IF I AM CORRECT EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WORTHLESS MARKETING PROPAGANDA
and I hope I am wrong

I bough some outboard gear this year because I had faith in the " not tested may still work " statements .
Because the C/24 was stated to be supported I thought not tested may still work would happen. Had I known otherwise from the get go I would have got a C/24 instead, woulda been a cheap $3000 upgrade after selling my Control24 but now im stuck

In a small town like mine to lose my center piece of the studio is a very big step backward. possibly a death knell, at least in terms of my studio,s brand recognition. Because I no longer have the only piece of equipment that sets me apart from every other studio. But to be told we are basically renting them now with no long term plans of commitment to them. How do I rationalize the investment.
Mix and HD lasted a very long time but with these marketing tactics I seriously doubt HDX will last half that time.
There,s more doubt than COST vs BENEFIT at this moment.

Now I look like just any other studio even though mine is the best in town. Nobody but people like us would even know it. I doubt my clients will take up 256 tracks on HDX so that hasn't been much of a selling point either, and may I remind you my client that none of your fav plugs are available yet
either.


Because in a small city or town where actual albums recorded for maximum sound quality is very very low ,flashy cool bells lights and whistles will win because it looks cool, because they dont understand anything else unfortunately

BAN ME YET AGAIN IF YOU MUST BUT THATS THE COLD HARD REALITY for me
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  #1396  
Old 09-14-2013, 04:16 AM
Brahamnesik Brahamnesik is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

This new S6 looks fancy, they sure grasp the WOW factor with all those lights and almost futuristic hi-tech appearance to show off. On the other hand, it's almost too much for me and I could be wrong but I guess they target the post-prod market more than recording studios. Usually, they work in a darker environment so all those lights could make sense.

To me, these units are more like a luxury, I'm perfectly happy with the Control 24. The only thing I miss would be a full vertical channel strip control on each channel like on a classic console with eqs and dynamics. Besides this, the Pro Control and Control 24 are perfect.

Anyway, the price tag is out of reach. Will this make you better mixer? I don't think so.

As AVID doesn't want us as customers, I'll keep my Pro Tools HD 8 and won't upgrade. Also, I think I prefer the hybrid concept of the SSL AWS.
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  #1397  
Old 09-14-2013, 07:32 AM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Music recording studios are broke and Avid is often competing with used consoles as studios go out of business.

Targeting post production where cable TV is driving a massive amount of expansion is only smart business for a company that has been bleeding money for a decade. Avid just about went broke doing what music people are now asking of them.
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  #1398  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:21 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Music recording studios are broke

Targeting post production where cable TV is driving a massive amount of expansion is only smart business.....
I've said it before as people have said "they are catering to the professional now" and not the mbox home crowd - hogwash they are catering to the media professional b/c there is more money there than in music

Avid is a media (film/TV) company now (exclusively) !!! Welcome to the future

(and they are still gonna sell the hell out of the mbox as well - FYI )
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  #1399  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:54 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Why would they allow other companies to compete with them if they don't have to?

Capitalism and competition exists when there's no way of controlling your brand.

No one is stopping Apple or Nuendo from creating (or buying) their own protocol and building large controllers around that. But they know that without Pro Tools, there's no market for it.

So Avid should just give that away?

Should they let other companies design HDX cards that work with Pro Tools as well?

The fact that the S6 works with all Eucon enabled DAWs is a great step towards avoiding the Control 24 - Pro Control situation.

If those units would still work with Logic or Nuendo but not Pro Tools 11, you could just switch DAWs and still have a working unit.
No one is stopping Apple or Nuendo from creating (or buying) their own protocol and building large controllers around that. But they know that without Pro Tools, there's no market for it.

Nuendo is doing that with their Yamaha Nuage controller line. Very tightly integrated with Nuendo and Cubase, and offers at least some level of HUI for working with Pro Tools. And a comparable Nuage system is a bit cheaper than Avid's S6.

While not really a DAW maker, SSL has done quite well with their "analog console/control surface" hybrids despite only having the MCU and HUI protocols. And with the DAW market it a state of flux right now, what would happen if SSL writes or buys their own DAW, using a proprietary protocol + MCU/HUI. Could be a real game changer.

I'm impressed by the S6 overall, but I think Avid may be making a couple of mistakes here...

Since they're going modular, Avid should drop the whole "low end/high end" thing. They should ditch the M10, and cut the price on the M40 to a point where they cold sell an M40 16 fader/5 knob + Process Modules + Display Modules + a stand for less than $40,000, which would put it somewhere around the price and feature set of a D-Command.

Then there's the Display Modules...to be totally politically incorrect, they are probably about as useful operationally as t*ts on a nun to the small to medium non-post studio, but those "bouncing meters" are impressive as hell to "Arnie & The Farmers" when they come in from Podunk, Iowa to make their first record. Here's a place where Avid could benefit from something of a "low end/high end" approach...they could come out with just a "Meter Module" with nothing but "bar" meters that mimic those in Pro Tools to give those "bouncing meters" at minimal cost. It would not be so much a "low end/high end" as a "buy what you need" thing where the "music" guys don't need as much metering as the "post" guys do.

Overall, I'm quite impressed with the S6 concept although I doubt that I personally would be able to scrape up enough money for even one of the cheapest modules. I'm sure Avid has more marketing guys than they can shake a stick at, but I think they might want to take a closer look at what will bring in bucks for "the little guys" and throw them some type of a bone...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

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  #1400  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:06 AM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
...what would happen if SSL writes or buys their own DAW, using a proprietary protocol + MCU/HUI. Could be a real game changer...
People on the DUC need to get out more!

http://solid-state-logic.com/music/soundscape/
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