HD native and third party interface with core audio

[eduy]

Hi folks,

I just purchased a burl mothership with digilink, and a used pro tools hd native interface (without any software/licenses). Right now i am ok with pro tools standard, i dont really need the pro tools ultimate extra features. So here comes my question..
Do i need to buy pro tools ultimate anyway for this to work or i purchase only standard pro tools and this will work with core audio without having ultimate? do i need to buy the digilink license also?

thanks

[Darryl Ramm]

Your Burl Mothership has DigiLink.. easiest solution may be to toss the DigiLink card for a USB interface card.

If you want to run DigiLink you need both Pro Tools Ultimate *and* a DigiLink licence. Pro Tools standard will not work. And of course you need a HDX or HD Native card or HD Native Thunderbolt... which I presume you mean when you have when you say "interface", although many of us take "interface" to more likely mean the boxes hanging off DigiLink.

If you want to use CoreAudio... you need a connection/interface supported by CoreAudio... DigiLink to Pro Tools is a different beast. Avid offers CoreAudio support on DigiLink systems for third party DAWs... you *cannot* use that for Pro Tools.

Lots of past threads on DUC explaining the Digilink license--you do not get this by just purchasing Pro Tools Ultimate.

If I was happy from a software point of view with Pro Tools standard and had no need for more than 64x64 IO, and was not say trying to clone gear in another studio, then a DigiLink based system would be the last thing I'd purchase. But all this is an example of why you should ask questions before buying stuff, or even better work through a knowledgeable sales rep at somewhere like Vintage King. Tell them what you're trying to achieve and they will help explain all the bits you need (and if they ever screw up I expect that company to help make it right).

[eduy]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Your Burl Mothership has DigiLink.. easiest solution may be to toss the DigiLink card for a USB interface card.

If you want to run DigiLink you need both Pro Tools Ultimate *and* a DigiLink licence. Pro Tools standard will not work. And of course you need a HDX or HD Native card or HD Native Thunderbolt... which I presume you mean when you have when you say "interface", although many of us take "interface" to more likely mean the boxes hanging off DigiLink.

If you want to use CoreAudio... you need a connection/interface supported by CoreAudio... DigiLink to Pro Tools is a different beast. Avid offers CoreAudio support on DigiLink systems for third party DAWs... you *cannot* use that for Pro Tools.

Lots of past threads on DUC explaining the Digilink license--you do not get this by just purchasing Pro Tools Ultimate.

If I was happy from a software point of view with Pro Tools standard and had no need for more than 64x64 IO, and was not say trying to clone gear in another studio, then a DigiLink based system would be the last thing I'd purchase. But all this is an example of why you should ask questions before buying stuff, or even better work through a knowledgeable sales rep at somewhere like Vintage King. Tell them what you're trying to achieve and they will help explain all the bits you need (and if they ever screw up I expect that company to help make it right).

Thanks pal, B80 mothership dosnt have usb at the moment but maybe dante would have been a better option for me

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by eduy

Thanks pal, B80 mothership dosnt have usb at the moment but maybe dante would have been a better option for me

oh right, I was thinking USB cards on their other products. Be careful of latency with Dante... all depends on your needs.

[Eric Seaberg]

For three of our edit systems, where we don't require 128-channels of IO, we are going with the Focusrite Red series and using core audio via Thunderbolt. Extremely solid and flexible, allowing all audio on the Mac to play through the interface... something you just can't do using Avid hardware.

The Red 4, in our case, also connects to our Dante network and forthcoming SSL System T consoles. If you do decide to stick with HD Native/HDX the Red products also have a DigiLink connection so it works in both worlds.

Well worth it for us...

[eduy]

Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg

For three of our edit systems, where we don't require 128-channels of IO, we are going with the Focusrite Red series and using core audio via Thunderbolt. Extremely solid and flexible, allowing all audio on the Mac to play through the interface... something you just can't do using Avid hardware.

The Red 4, in our case, also connects to our Dante network and forthcoming SSL System T consoles. If you do decide to stick with HD Native/HDX the Red products also have a DigiLink connection so it works in both worlds.

Well worth it for us...

wow thats cool, so i connect the burl -> hd native -> focusrite red4 or red 8 or burl straight into focusrite red 4 or 8? you can use standard pro tools like that?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by eduy

wow thats cool, so i connect the burl -> hd native -> focusrite red4 or red 8 or burl straight into focusrite red 4 or 8? you can use standard pro tools like that?

No. Anytime anywhere with any hardware you are using DigiLink connections, you need Pro Tools Ultimate and a DigiLink licenses. Hey I don't make the rules, ... (Avid may ultimately harm their own future business here with this approach.).

Not sure I understand your connection ascii art. But you should get your head around some basics of DigiLink... Each DigiLink bus (i.e. port on a card) supports up to 32x32 IO. You can typically add I/O boxes to that in 16x16 IO chunks at least with say older Avid HD IO boxes, for a total of two 16x16 IO boxes on a chain. But since the Red 4 Pre and Red 8 Pre support near 64 x 64 IO they do that by running two seperate DigiLink IO busses to them. The second port here is not an expansion port for daisy chaining another interface box, it's a second bus. One of these RedNet boxes totally consumes all the Digilink I/O capacity on a HD IO card or a single HDX Card. And yes Focusrite has done lots of nice stuff in this product range.

Note: Different Burl Digilink cards use different number of IO channels, some fully use a whole DigiLink IO Bus on one mini-Digilink connector, some provide for daisy chaining etc.

It seems like Digilink is a bad choice for you, I'd be looking at USB or Dante and similar options (can you upgrade the Burl for one with USB options today?)

[eduy]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

No. Anytime anywhere with any hardware you are using DigiLink connections, you need Pro Tools Ultimate and a DigiLink licenses. Hey I don't make the rules, ... (Avid may ultimately harm their own future business here with this approach.).

Not sure I understand your connection ascii art. But you should get your head around some basics of DigiLink... Each DigiLink bus (i.e. port on a card) supports up to 32x32 IO. You can typically add I/O boxes to that in 16x16 IO chunks at least with say older Avid HD IO boxes, for a total of two 16x16 IO boxes on a chain. But since the Red 4 Pre and Red 8 Pre support near 64 x 64 IO they do that by running two seperate DigiLink IO busses to them. The second port here is not an expansion port for daisy chaining another interface box, it's a second bus. One of these RedNet boxes totally consumes all the Digilink I/O capacity on a HD IO card or a single HDX Card. And yes Focusrite has done lots of nice stuff in this product range.

Note: Different Burl Digilink cards use different number of IO channels, some fully use a whole DigiLink IO Bus on one mini-Digilink connector, some provide for daisy chaining etc.

It seems like Digilink is a bad choice for you, I'd be looking at USB or Dante and similar options (can you upgrade the Burl for one with USB options today?)

So the advantage using focusrite red with burl digilink would be that i could use pro tools standard in thunderbolt mode with Burl i/o and also listening to youtube and music outside pro tools using burl converters? i couldnt do that with HD native thunderbolt card instead of focusrite red?

At the moment there is no usb or thunderbolt motherboard for the B80 mothership, the other options available are soundgrid, dante, or madi (figuring out which one would be the most convenient for me).. im going towards a hybrid mixing / analog summing situation in which standard pro tools would be enough for me, with around 10 inputs/22outputs so i would be ok with a 32 i/o limit

The only advantage i see on buying ultimate for me is getting prepared for atmos mixing

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by eduy

So the advantage using focusrite red with burl digilink would be that i could use pro tools standard in thunderbolt mode with Burl i/o and also listening to youtube and music outside pro tools using burl converters? i couldnt do that with HD native thunderbolt card instead of focusrite red?

Huh? How exactly are you thinking you can connect your Burl to the Focusrite Pre boxes? You cannot connect them via DigiLink directly to each other. For the life of me I do not understand why Focusrite boxes even got mentioned in this thread, maybe the thought was you replace the Burl with those. I suspect Eric just read the thread title and was commenting on a box that has Thunderbolt (and therefore CoreAudio) and Digilink, and not really about your actual problem with your Burl.

This stuff is easier than you are making it. DigiLink lives in its own world, if you don’t want to go DigiLink then you need to replace the IO card in the Burl and go Dante or whatever options you have… but you need to understand how to configure a Dante system esp. if you need a Dante NIC or replace the Burl you have now with a Burl model with USB or toss Burl and get another brand of interface. I personally would rather have denser conversion/line inputs in an interface and then analog mic preamps in 500 series or 19” racks for more flexibility/less lock in.

[Eric Seaberg]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I suspect Eric just read the thread title and was commenting on a box that has Thunderbolt (and therefore CoreAudio) and Digilink, and not really about your actual problem with your Burl.

Not really, we are using the Focusrite as another interface in the HD Native chain after our HD IO, giving us the additional IO and connectivity to the Dante network.

One of our systems that is battling the HD Driver issues with Big Sur decided to forget about using the Avid hardware and strictly use the Red 4 as a Core Audio Thunderbolt interface and all other problems went away. Since we don't need that much IO in these rooms, we are moving away from Avid hardware in all of them and moving toward the Focusrite RED for IO and their R1 monitor controller to simplify everything we're doing.

BTW, we will have lots of hardware available to sell.