wide stereo distorted guitar tips...give 'em up

[Allen Tucker]

I cant find an answer to this question that has given me good results so I will try here. I am recording heavy distorted guitars with a Mesa head that has sweet freakin' tone...for example Chevelle new album tone. I am looking for descriptions of what you all do to get a wide stereo effect that will still translate to mono without hearing phase. This is what I do and I dont like it...well i like it in stereo but not in mono because of phase.

Mesa head to a 4x12 cab. I mic that 4x12 cabinet with 2 sm57s. one placed a little off center of the cone directly pointing at it and the second at around 45 degrees at the speaker...pretty much parallel with the speaker. I take each one of those signals, EQ them and then pan one hard left and one hard right. then i take a delay and put it on the right track and delay it 100% at around 8-12ms. With this solution i get really wide guitars in stereo that sound bad ass, but in mono i get all this phase that is really ugly.

I am looking for something that basically sounds exactly like the new Chevelle album because it is so tight but still has a really good stereo image. Let me know what you all do and I will be in forever debt to the DUC because I am about to go crazy thinking about possible solutions. I try them all and they all suck. haha. thanks in advance. here is an example of what i have going right now. i hate the guitar tone on this example because it came from a crap amp, but at least it is good in stereo...but not in mono www.theboilerroomstudios.com/examples/4Seamer-Nevar.mp3

Allen

ps...not really all that new to the board, i just don't post much. I watch posts all the time, i just dont have much to say. haha

[E-Buzz]

Can you reverse the phase on one mic? Use the Trim plug to reverse the phase.

[Allen Tucker]

tried it, it still has phase in mono.

[Allen Tucker]

just added a link to a song that has the stereo image i'm talkin about...horrible tone, but stereo good...mono bad.

[Allen Tucker]

i forgot to mention that i dont want to double track because i think that it makes the tone of the guitar dirty. If you listen to Chevelle, you can hear the tube breaking up in their amps. I WANT THAT!!!

[bigbubbaj]

I hate to tell you but layers(3-4 tracks) is the key to the sound you want.

[will the moor]

For me, the all around better way to solve these kind of problems is to track and mix while monitoring in MONO. once it sounds good, spread it out. just play with the mic placement while listening in mono and you'll get it sussed. having a buddy to move the mics while you're in the control room is worth the cost of beer.

you might also have better luck with a different second mic.


Will

[Allen Tucker]

i guess i just dont understand how it is possible to have 3 or 4 tracks layered but still have them very clean. you have to admit, once you add another track that isn't the same waveform (even a second mic at a different location) the guitar mix gets muddied a little. Is there a way to achieve a wide stereo image using only one mic? i have used one mic before and doubled the track and delayed it...i get good results, but once again, mono phase issue. I am just wondering if there are some tricks that the big boys use that we dont know about. I feel that there is NO way that the Chevelle album was double tracked. You can hear the delay between the speakers.....it is also way too clean for that. just throwin in my 2nd cent. haha

[Chris Cavell]

i just dont understand how it is possible to have 3 or 4 tracks layered but still have them very clean

EQ and panning usually do the job satisfactorily for everyone else in this industry...

Is there a way to achieve a wide stereo image using only one mic?

while keeping it mono compatible and still clear...not to my knowledge

Honestly though...we've answered this question a zillion times...i think I answered it just a week or two ago...have you tried searching? If you want doubled guits to come out super tight, use two (or more) amps simultaneously...

[bigbubbaj]

it is also way too clean for that.

That is why they are rich

Hence its a major label production.... They probably got an assistant to lay the tracks while the band was at lunch (ala mixermans book)

If the playing is close enough..it slight human delays are often no more than a 16ms delay panned to the other side. The fact that the waveforms are different is what makes is "huge".

A really talented guitar player can double track and nail it usually.

Check out the guitar thread on the MARSH.