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  #51  
Old 10-26-2022, 02:41 PM
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MCorbin MCorbin is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

IO for a fully expanded system below. The guide should be published before the end of the week on the Carbon Requirements KB as well.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...n-Requirements

Inputs:
Carbon
Mic/Line 1-8
ADAT 1 1-8
ADAT 2 1-8
TB

Carbon Pre 1
Mic/Line 1-8

Carbon Pre 2
Mic/Line 1-8

Outputs
Carbon
Mon LR
HP 1-4 (stereo)
Line 1-8
ADAT 1 1-8
ADAT 2 1-8

Carbon Pre 1
Line 1-8

Carbon Pre 2
Line 1-8
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  #52  
Old 10-27-2022, 03:10 PM
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MCorbin MCorbin is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Hey all!

Carbon Pre is OUT and shipping. More info is available on the KB. You may also have noticed a little app in your account called Carbon Central... I'll write up a post for this shortly too... but gone are the days of AMS!

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...n-Requirements
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Professional Audio Systems

For immediate assistance:
Pro Tools & Eucon Surfaces - +1 888-456-3444
Venue Support - +1 978-275-2557

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  #53  
Old 10-27-2022, 09:10 PM
685 685 is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Had this been offered a while ago I might have bought in. I liked the idea of the Carbon interface as a replacement for my Omni but I was a little concerned about the lack of expandability and the newer AVB protocol.
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  #54  
Old 10-30-2022, 03:48 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
For me, I got Carbon not because of the lower cost, but because it's the lowest latency of ANY current recording system. I had HDX, but its latency was much higher than HD Accel once any plugins were used. Carbon has low enough base latency that you can even achieve latency superior to HD Accel while using a few plugins.
Swings and roundabouts, really. There are more situations where Carbon will have much higher RTL than HD Accel, HDX and decent modern native systems. Using a virtual instrument. Punching into an existing mix through a monitor signal path that has 4, 5, 6 'premium' AAX-DSP plugins in it, etc. It is the prerequisite of incredibly prudent use of plugin types and choices that really made me give up HDX in the first place. It only seems to compound with Carbon, due to the very limited amount of DSP. What is it now? 40 something inputs and only half a HDX card of DSP? That is excruciatingly prudent by modern standards, either with DSP or in Native.

Quote:
I haven't used my Carbon in months due to the issues, but I've been keeping it on hand in hopes of resolution, since it occupies a unique space from a recording standpoint (sub 2ms tracking at 44.1).
For me, the issues with Carbon have been the timeline and sync bugs, plus the limitation of 24 inputs. IF Carbon Pre truly adds 8 more inputs (32+TB that are DSP monitoring enabled) that eliminates the latter.
That sounds like a pretty awful scenario. I'm not entirely surprised though. Users progressively got the poops with TDM and HDX as a result of its constant trade-offs of Native against DSP. Personally, I would have thought a genuinely decent hybrid workflow in 2022 would include both terrific DSP latency and competitive native latency. The whole Carbon design seems rooted in the terribly outdated dual sample buffer philosophies of 2002. The kind of situation where running 1024 sample buffers was a necessity.
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  #55  
Old 10-30-2022, 08:55 PM
audiolex1 audiolex1 is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

I've been told the AVB is proprietary to AVID and there is comparability outside of PT. I don't know if that is true.

But, keeping the AVB structure within AVID just limits AVID. There are plenty of other outboard AVB devices that compete greater than AVID at the same price and you get more.

It is a shame, as I do like the new unit and even considered it until Barry John's broke it all down.
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  #56  
Old 10-30-2022, 10:37 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolex1 View Post
I've been told the AVB is proprietary to AVID and there is comparability outside of PT. I don't know if that is true.

But, keeping the AVB structure within AVID just limits AVID. There are plenty of other outboard AVB devices that compete greater than AVID at the same price and you get more.

It is a shame, as I do like the new unit and even considered it until Barry John's broke it all down.

It is the stupidity of AVB in general, really. Presonus, MOTU, Avid... they are all guilty of it. Standardized forms of AVB, like MILAN, have existed for quite a while. They have certification programs. They guarantee interoperability with other MILAN devices. None of them bothered to do it though. Instead, Avid want to sell owners of their live sound desks an MILAN expansion card so you can run.... two types of AVB in one system.
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  #57  
Old 10-31-2022, 02:25 AM
dominicperry dominicperry is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolex1 View Post

It is a shame, as I do like the new unit and even considered it until Barry John's broke it all down.
Do you have a link to this article/forum/video please? I'd be interested in what he has to say.

Dominic
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  #58  
Old 10-31-2022, 09:36 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolex1 View Post

It is a shame, as I do like the new unit and even considered it until Barry John's broke it all down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicperry View Post
Do you have a link to this article/forum/video please? I'd be interested in what he has to say.

Dominic

Barry does offer some good info BUT
Barry gets so spun out in his prejudicial distain for Avid that he "broke it all down" with an inaccurate statement and some prejudicial false equivalencies
Regardless of his claim,, he seems to be more highly subjective and only marginally objective

First (inaccurate claim) Exactly like the RME Fireface UFX + ,,, Carbon has TWO (not one ) ADAT banks No. 1 and No. 2 for a total 16 channels which is the number of ADAT channels RME has (which he later states about the RME)

Second (false equivalency #1) the RME Fireface UFX + Has 4 mic preamps the Carbon has 8.. So that fact alone is an objective reason the Carbon is $1000 more than the RME . Objectively $250 per channel for top quality mic's pres and conversion is not at all unreasonable .
Then he goes on to use the word play -- The Carbon has top of line "interface" quality mic pres" while implying --but not as quality as top dedicated pre's--- which is a totally subjective (not objective) assessment and highly debatable

Third (false equivalency #2) "the interface alone" ? No there is no $2700 to $3000 dollar interface (that I know of ) that has 8 high end mic pre's and converters that has integrated seamless DSP available using a single layer of software Most of the better $2700 - $3500 interface that offer some kind of DSP are 4 preamps and require dual layers of software,, and by the time you ad four more high quality mic pre's with high end conversion you will be at $4k or more So No you are not paying $1000 to $1300 more for only DSP

The Carbon and Carbon pre microphone preamps are as good as almost any mic pre on the market period ,, interface or dedicated standalone mic pre. And the same can said of the converters
And as far as the price of the Carbon Pre. ? ) Objectively $375 per channel for top tier mic pre's and conversion is also not out of line. ( you will likely pay double that for a 1 channel of 500 format mic pre ) Not to mention being able to seamlessly integrate the Carbon and Carbon Pre for DSP usage, in a single layer of software .....

I like Barry but I would view his video/s with a grain of salt ... Now saying he thinks there are better bargains out there is a perfectly valid totally subjective personal opinion... But saying anyone who buys a Carbon Pre is "out of their mind" is total personal agenda driven hype and BS
I would not buy a Carbon Pre because I don't need more than the 8 mic pre's I have on my Carbon ,,,, BUT if I did, I would give it serious consideration and certainly not dismiss out of hand based on the objectively questionable assessment of someone butt hurt about Avid


here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7NO...ohnsStudioTalk
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Last edited by K Roche; 10-31-2022 at 11:15 AM.
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  #59  
Old 10-31-2022, 10:42 AM
JTC111 JTC111 is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
The Carbon and Carbon pre microphone preamps are as good as almost any mic pre on the market period ,, interface or dedicated standalone mic pre. And the same can said of the converters
And as far as the price of the Carbon Pre. ? ) Objectively $375 per channel for top tier mic pre's and conversion is also not out of line. ( you will likely pay double that for a 1 channel of 500 format mic pre ) Not to mention being able to seamlessly integrate the Carbon and Carbon Pre for DSP usage, in a single layer of software .....
I got into it a bit with Barry in the comment section of that video and made this point about his price complaint:
As for the 8-channel Carbon Pre being $3k, that's what you'd pay for a 4-channel John Hardy pre. Is that more than, let's say, a Focusrite OctoPre, yes, but it's also a better quality preamp. You've heard those preamps so I'm pretty sure you know how good they are. Quality costs money, no? If I needed eight extra preamps, the Carbon Pre is actually a fairly economically friendly option compared to the boutique options on the market.

As I said to you over at AGF, I don't need the pres. What I really want to see is a 16 channel Avid AVB box without pres. I'm buying that the day it comes out and I have to think that's in the works if Avid is looking at UA as a direct competitor in this market.
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  #60  
Old 10-31-2022, 10:52 AM
JTC111 JTC111 is offline
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Default Re: NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolex1 View Post
It is a shame, as I do like the new unit and even considered it until Barry John's broke it all down.
meh... Barry can be like that bitter uncle who complains all the time. His opinions come from his own perspective and don't really allow much room or acknowledgement that others may have very different views for a variety of reasons.

I really take issue with him pushing Stam gear. That company is a pile of problems and the owner is the most deceitful person I've ever encountered, not just in the audio industry, but perhaps in my entire life. There are still people who have been waiting years for gear to be delivered on orders that were promised delivery in a couple of months. Yet Barry recommends them without a second thought for the people he encourages to go down that shady path.
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