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  #1  
Old 01-11-2009, 06:25 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Default Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Hello, do you guys mind answering a list of Q's please?

This system: AMD 4400+ X2, 2 gig ram, several SATA/IDE hd's (non-raid), WinXP Pro SP2
* Thinking of adding 2 more gigs of ram tomorrow.
Two Delta 1010's (no the "LT" delta btw)

I'm a Vegas 7 user and have PT mpowered 7.4cs8 setup now which I need/want to start utililizing. I have some questions that kind of relate to some comparative features/editing routes and func of other apps that I hope you guys can address.

Note: I realize that sometimes when people talk about other apps and try to compare the features/UI/etc. it can seem like they're taking a shot at PT/digi, or visa-vi.
This is not the case, I am interested in utilizing PT 7.4 and really it's just about streamlining things in a way that some other apps incorporate (things that actually make a heckofalot of sense and ease - require a lot less clicking around to get editing/etc things done basically).
I'm going thru the manual and some vids and there seem to be some round-about/long ways in doing rather simple tasks/edits. I'm hoping to streamline these types of things (much like vegas has feature-wise) if possible (not a lot of clicking around/extra steps just to do simple edits).

Example: In Vegas, creating crossfades, splitting files, and more are a snap...and I'm hoping some of you might be able to tell me if and how PT 7.4 mp has the equivalent features.
I'm hoping to set PT up in a similar fashion.

Can you tell me how the following are quickly done in PT 7.4cs8, or if it's possible to configure it to behave similarly for some of the following?


1. In vegas 7 making a split anywhere in a track is rather simple, just place the marker, select the track/wav (or all tracks) hit "S" on the kb. Instant split - with even a nice auto fade (configurable) at each end of the split.

Can this be done just as easily in PT and if so how?

2. And after a split, etc. is made in Vegas...I can place the cursor at either end of the waveform/split track(s) and resize the waveform and move the edited split waveform anywhere in the timeline simply using the mouse. Or, with the auto fade at each end of the waveform/splits/etc. , I can simply click and drag the fade out length to any desired length (or remove it).

Is there a way to setup PT to behave the same?

3. In vegas or acid, I can select any waveform/track(s) and right click to open in an audio editor (say for example, basic NR or the like editing..etc.). Once edited and saved it reopens the file in Vegas/Acid right away, making for very streamlined sessions.

Where is this in PT 7.4? Can I quickly and easily edit in any of my audio editors (Sound Forge or Adobe audition for example)?...and have the edited changes reflect in the PT session?

4. I doubt this one can be done but is there a choice/route in mixing down in PT via "rendering" a session... VS. always having to "bounce to track"?
* this one amazes me as to why it still exists in PT, and I would think by now PT would be rendering (or offer the choice) instead of having to play the entire file and "bounce".

But maybe I'm missing something here and it can be done (simple "render" selected timeline or entire session instead of the "bounce" process.

5. Vegas also accepts a wide variety of formats/rates within a session (example have mp3 tracks along with .wav files, ..or .aif, wma...etc. etc.). And it offers many different formats avail to render to.
Is there a package one can purchase for this functionality with PT 7.4?

I did see that I can purchase the mp3 option (I'm kind of bothered this isn't included to be honest). Now if I get that, does this mean I can insert mp3's in a session too?...or does it only mean I buy the option to bounce to MP3?


7. RTAS plugins: I just put PT 7.4 MP on this system ..and I own the fxpansion VST to RTAS. I own several nice VST/RTAS plugs.
Before I put PT 7.4 on I simply didn't install many of all of the RTAS versions of the plugs (didn't use PT).
Now I'd like to get the RTAS versions installed for use in PT, ...do I have to completely uninstall all the plugs pckgs and reinstall (choosing to install both RTAS and VST this go round) to be able to use the RTAS versions of plugs in PT?

Or... since it's just plugins can I skip all these uninstalls and simply reinstall over, choosing to install the RTAS plugs ..and all will work fine (note: I keep all VST plugs in one folder, ...and RTAS defaults to the digi/plugins folder of course).

Or...can I do an install choosing to install the RTAS plugs only (therefore getting the RTAS plugs in the digi/plugins folder...and my old installation of VST plugs will remain intact and working?


8. This is in regard to the maudio driver I use. I have 2 delta 1010's (the rack deltas, not the delta 1010 LT's). I really prefer to use maudiodriver vers 5.10.00.0051 driver (it offers the older and more configurable mpanel, the best sounding and stable driver, best functional driver for my use - it also supports mpowered and seems to be working fine so far with mpowered).

Now when I installed Ptools 7.4cs8, it began to install mpowereds version of the delta drivers (or is it really the digi drivers?...not sure).
What I did when it came time in the install to install these drivers is select stop installation (of just the audio drivers)...therefore allowing me to keep the above older driver I prefer.
I still see and use/open the 5.10.00.0051 driver/mpanel in the taskbar...but in CONTROL PANEL I now have 2 maudio icons - the 5.10.00.0051 mpanel which opens up when clicked (one I use and opens fine for configuring)...and now a new one just called "Maudio Delta" (icon looks like the pt mpowered logo ">" symbol ...which DOESN'T OPEN when clicked (and it's only showing in the control panel, not in the taskbar along with the older mpanel icon).
I assume it's there in regard to the driver setup I described above.

Now, things seem to be working fine, just curious if this is a poss problem I should fix address (get rid of the remnants of PT's driver install that I cancelled/stop installation.



Again, please understand with some of these Q's I'm not knocking PT, I'm just trying to set some things up to be as streamlined as possible (and yes, I think Vegas sure does have great editing functionality/features and I'm curious if they can be setup similarly in PT 7.4cs8. That's all).

Yes, I am going thru the manual and pdf's with all this stuff so if you can, please refrain from answering with this.

And thank you so much for any and all replies and help.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2009, 06:36 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Oh I forgot...

Question 9.

This system: AMD 4400+ X2, 2 gig ram, several SATA/IDE hd's (non-raid).
* Thinking of adding 2 more gigs of ram tomorrow

Almost always using a session setup of 24-bit/44.1khz or sometimes 48kHz.

Given this system...can you guys advise on the best setup options I might want to consider in the SETUP - Playback section, and SETUP - Preferences?

Right now it's pretty much the default setup for these:

Playback engine:
H/W buffer = 256 samples
RTAS proc = 2 processors
CPU usage = 85%

Dae play buffer size = 1500ms, Level 2 default
Cache size normal


Just curious if you think some altering of settings might benefit this particular system.



Question 10.

Only 32 tracks max for PT 7.4 mpowered...correct?
Any way to expand that? (add-ons, etc.). I can add a 3rd delta 1010 to this system.

Thanks again
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2009, 06:47 PM
SixChurchStreet SixChurchStreet is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

You have a long post here! I'll see what I can do to answer what I can. I have and use Sony Vegas 8 Pro. I find both Vegas and Pro Tools to really quick and easy to get things done, but for audio, Pro Tools take the cake hands down... here we go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo99 View Post
Hello, do you guys mind answering a list of Q's please?

This system: AMD 4400+ X2, 2 gig ram, several SATA/IDE hd's (non-raid).
* Thinking of adding 2 more gigs of ram tomorrow.

I'm a Vegas 7 user and have PT mpowered 7.4cs8 setup which I need to start utililizing. I have some questions that kind of relate to some comparative features/editing routes and func of other apps that I hope you guys can address.

I realize that sometimes when people talk about other apps and try to compare the features/UI/etc. it can seem like they're taking a shot at PT/digi.
This is not the case, I am interested in utilizing PT 7.4 and really it's just about streamlining things in a way that some other apps incorporate (things that require a lot less clicking around

I'm going thru the manual and some vids and there seem to be some round-about/long ways in doing rather simple tasks/edits. I'm hoping to streamline these types of things (much like vegas has feature-wise) if possible (not a lot of clicking around/extra steps just to do simple edits).

example: In Vegas, creating crossfades, splitting files, and more are a snap...and I'm hoping some of you might be able to tell me if and how PT 7.4 mp has the equivalent features.

there seems to be some nice and basic UI/edit features in other apps that just make sense, I'm hoping to set PT up in a similar fashion.

Can you tell me how the following are quickly done in PT 7.4cs8, or if it's possible to configure it to behave similarly for some of the following?

* I also have some RTAS Q's as well.

1. In vegas 7 making a split anywhere in a track is rather simple, just place the marker, select the track/wav (or all tracks) hit "S" on the kb. Instant split - with even a nice auto fade (configurable) at each end of the split.

Can this be done just as easily in PT and if so how? click where you want the cut, and hit CNTRL+ E , this creates a new region, and basically splits the audio where you put the cursor. Just as easy as Vegas, just a different shortcut. if you want to put fades on the audio, click the Super Tool (the one that combines the middle three), and mouse over the top corner of the audio region, it'll turn into a little box, drag taht back to make your fade.

2. And after a split, etc. is made in Vegas...I can place the cursor at either end of the waveform/split track(s) and resize the waveform and move the edited split waveform anywhere in the timeline simply using the mouse. Or, with the auto fade at each end of the waveform/splits/etc. , I can simply click and drag the fade out length to any desired length (or remove it).

Is there a way to setup PT to behave the same? by resizing i'm not sure what you mean. if you want to compress the audio, use the TCE tool in the toolbar. drag it back and it'll squeeze the audio down. If you want to cut it back, use the trimmer tool. You can also drag audio regions to new tracks the same way you do in vegas. Use the hand tool.

3. In vegas or acid, I can select any waveform/track(s) and right click to open in an audio editor (say for example, basic NR or the like editing..etc.). Once edited and saved it reopens the file in Vegas/Acid right away, making for very streamlined sessions.

Where is this in PT 7.4? Can I quickly and easily edit in any of my audio editors (Sound Forge or Adobe audition for example)?...and have the edited changes reflect in the PT session? No, Pro Tools IS your audio editor. There's no need to open an audio file in another program to edit it. Pro Tools does whatever Sound Forge can do to an audio file to edit it. It's much quicker and easier to stay right in the program dontcha think?

4. I doubt this one can be done but is there a choice/route in mixing down in PT via "rendering" a session... VS. always having to "bounce to track"?
* this one amazes me as to why it still exists in PT, and I would think by now PT would be rendering (or offer the choice) instead of having to play the entire file and "bounce".

But maybe I'm missing something here and it can be done (simple "render" selected timeline or entire session instead of the "bounce" process. no, Pro Tools bounces down in real time. This is because a lot of people use outboard gear at inserts, and for other reasons. Most of us like the real time bounce. That's how they did it in the old days, and it gives you a chance to sit back, close your eyes, and hear what your final bounce is sounding like.

5. Vegas also accepts a wide variety of formats/rates within a session (example have mp3 tracks along with .wav files, ..or .aif, wma...etc. etc.). And it offers many different formats avail to render to.
Is there a package one can purchase for this functionality with PT 7.4?

I did see that I can purchase the mp3 option (I'm kind of bothered this isn't included to be honest). Now if I get that, does this mean I can insert mp3's in a session too?...or does it only mean I buy the option to bounce to MP3? you can import MP3s in, yes. .aif and .wav as well. I'm not sure about .wma, i have not tried this so i can't say whether or not this is possible. and along the lines of your question, you can mix and match, because when you import audio, it converts it to whatever you're working in... .wav or .aiff


7. RTAS plugins: I just put PT 7.4 MP on this system ..and I own the fxpansion VST to RTAS. I own several nice VST/RTAS plugs.
Before I put PT 7.4 on I simply didn't install many of all of the RTAS versions of the plugs (didn't use PT).
Now I'd like to get the RTAS versions installed for use in PT, ...do I have to completely uninstall all the plugs pckgs and reinstall (choosing to install both RTAS and VST this go round) to be able to use the RTAS versions of plugs in PT? this would probably depend on the individual software. with some you can probably just re-run the install, some will not work right unless you uninstall first.

Or... since it's pluginscan I skip all these uninstalls and simply reinstall over, choosing to install the RTAS plugs ..and all will work fine (note: I keep all VST plugs in one folder, ...and RTAS defaults to the digi/plugins folder of course).

8. This is in regard to the maudio driver I use. I have 2 delta 1010's (the rack deltas, not the delta 1010 LT's). I really prefer to use maudiodriver vers 5.10.00.0051 driver (it offers the older and more configurable mpanel, the best sounding and stable driver, best functional driver for my use - it also supports mpowered and seems to be working fine so far with mpowered).

Now when I installed Ptools 7.4cs8, it began to install mpowereds version of the delta drivers (or is it really the digi drivers?...not sure).
What I did when it came time in the install to install these drivers is select stop installation (of just the audio drivers)...therefore allowing me to keep the above older driver I prefer.
I still see and use/open the 5.10.00.0051 driver/mpanel in the taskbar...but in CONTROL PANEL I now have 2 maudio icons - the 5.10.00.0051 mpanel which opens up when clicked (one I use and opens fine for configuring)...and now a new one just called "Maudio Delta" (icon looks like the pt mpowered logo ">" symbol ...which DOESN'T OPEN when clicked (and it's only showing in the control panel, not in the taskbar along with the older mpanel icon).
I assume it's there in regard to the driver setup I described above.

Now, things seem to be working fine, just curious if this is a poss problem I should fix address (get rid of the remnants of PT's driver install that I cancelled/stop installation.

Again, please understand with some of these Q's I'm not knocking PT, I'm just trying to set some things up to be as streamlined as possible (and yes, I think Vegas sure does have great editing functionality/features that I'm curious if they can be setup similarly in PT 7.4cs8.

And yes, I am going thru the manual and pdf's with all this stuff so if you can, please refrain from answering with this.

Thank you so much for any and all replies and help.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:11 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Posts: 123
Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Oh yes, sorry for the long post and thank you for answering...

Mind just a few more q's (relating to your replies):

Quote:
Can this be done just as easily in PT and if so how? click where you want the cut, and hit CNTRL+ E , this creates a new region, and basically splits the audio where you put the cursor. Just as easy as Vegas, just a different shortcut. if you want to put fades on the audio, click the Super Tool (the one that combines the middle three), and mouse over the top corner of the audio region, it'll turn into a little box, drag taht back to make your fade
.


Ok I see... that works (little box). Now when I use it...split and make the fade... the option to further edit the fade (little box) is no longer there or coming up (for further fade editing). It switches to the trimmer tool. How do I get the little box or edit the fade further (to make changes to the fade/etc.)? I'm sure there's a way and I'm not seeing it.

Quote:
by resizing i'm not sure what you mean. if you want to compress the audio, use the TCE tool in the toolbar. drag it back and it'll squeeze the audio down. If you want to cut it back, use the trimmer tool. You can also drag audio regions to new tracks the same way you do in vegas. Use the hand tool.


No not time compress/etc., actually I meant trimming (the drawn waveform)...which of course sounds like would be done with the trimming tool.

By the way...speaking of time compress in PT...
Right now I have elastic audio turned off for new tracks...but when I do go to utilize this I have a setup of "Time Shift" (in setup-->preferences-->TC/E). Should I have that setup for "Digidesign TC/E" instead?
I believe I was getting errors/problems with "Digidesign TC/E"...

but maybe that's either until I did the latest cs8 update or chose to use "Time Shift" instead (or...was it the update that set it to "Time Shift" )?
Not sure.

Quote:
No, Pro Tools IS your audio editor. There's no need to open an audio file in another program to edit it. Pro Tools does whatever Sound Forge can do to an audio file to edit it. It's much quicker and easier to stay right in the program dontcha think?
Yeah I hear ya, but there are some times when I may need to edit a track/.wav - mainly things like audio restoration for a certain track(s) - (declick, noise reduction, etc.) that really comes in handy and saves a bunch of time.
Other than that, yes, I stay in the app for the most part.

I guess for issues like this I can not the problem track/.wav, close PT and open the file and edit/save...then reopen the session with the repaired audio.

And thank you so much for the replies/help.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:20 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

geeez, sorry to add the q's:

Is there a real difference between the RTAS plugs vs. VST?
What are the differences?

What about fxpansion wrapped VST's in PT, big difference or resource hit there?


and ...(sorry)...
in regard to zooming in on a track and placing the cursor...it sems to be "snapping" to beats, or smaples, etc.
How does one turn off "snapping to" (to place the cursor for precise edit points)?

thanks
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:47 PM
SixChurchStreet SixChurchStreet is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Let's see...

first, fades...

so you learned how to fade the end of a track... if you want to edit that fade, it's a little weird maybe,but you use the trimmer tool. for example, if you faded the end of an audio region, pace the trimmer tool near the left end of the fade and drag out, it'll make the fade longer. you can do the opposite to make the fade shorter.


next, elastic audio and TCE. not sure what you're trying to do, but keep in mind Elastic Audio and TCE are completely separate tools, even though they sort of do the same types of things.

RTAS vs. VST? No notable differences. Just two different formats. I wouldn't say wrapped VSTs are going to give you a performance hit. I think this depends on the individual plugin. I wouldn't worry about it either way.

for the "snapping" thats going on... on the top left of your edit window, you'll see Slip, Grid, Shuffle...4 modes in total. You should definitely do yourself a favor and read the Pro Tools REf Manual and learn about these. If you are snapping, you could be in grid mode. if you want total freedom and no snapping, put it in Slip mode. This lets you do whatever the heck you wanna do with the audio and doesn't constrain you to any grid.

hope this stuff helps you out.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:54 PM
SixChurchStreet SixChurchStreet is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo99 View Post
Oh yes, sorry for the long post and thank you for answering...

Mind just a few more q's (relating to your replies):

.


Ok I see... that works (little box). Now when I use it...split and make the fade... the option to further edit the fade (little box) is no longer there or coming up (for further fade editing). It switches to the trimmer tool. How do I get the little box or edit the fade further (to make changes to the fade/etc.)? I'm sure there's a way and I'm not seeing it.



No not time compress/etc., actually I meant trimming (the drawn waveform)...which of course sounds like would be done with the trimming tool.

By the way...speaking of time compress in PT...
Right now I have elastic audio turned off for new tracks...but when I do go to utilize this I have a setup of "Time Shift" (in setup-->preferences-->TC/E). Should I have that setup for "Digidesign TC/E" instead?
I believe I was getting errors/problems with "Digidesign TC/E"...

but maybe that's either until I did the latest cs8 update or chose to use "Time Shift" instead (or...was it the update that set it to "Time Shift" )?
Not sure.



Yeah I hear ya, but there are some times when I may need to edit a track/.wav - mainly things like audio restoration for a certain track(s) - (declick, noise reduction, etc.) that really comes in handy and saves a bunch of time.
Other than that, yes, I stay in the app for the most part.

I guess for issues like this I can not the problem track/.wav, close PT and open the file and edit/save...then reopen the session with the repaired audio.

And thank you so much for the replies/help.
Regarding the audio editing, cleanup stuff... you can use pro tools to declick you audio but getting in to the waveform and drawing digital clicks out with the pencil tool. there are also noise reduction plugins. Pro Tools is designed to be a complete audio application. If you want to export something out, there's no seamless integrated way to do it, as the intention of Pro Tools is to stay in Pro Tools. You can export a single selected audio region though as .wav (i'm pretty sure you can). that open taht in sound forge and do what you gotta do, then import it back in.

But in my opinion it's easier to just learn how to do this stuff in pro tools. :)
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:33 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Thanks!

Audio editing:
Well, no you don't want to be doing noise reduction with the pencil tool. I don't even think that's possible.

And some/very few clicks/pops are fine to edit with the pencil tool...but once you're knee deep with clicks in a problem file...these things are more easily done with any one of the many decent declick/pops plugs.
They're a little better (plugs) too when dealing with clicks/pops in with audio data you need to retain/keep.

But really, these restoration issues are few and far between (nonetheless I come across it from time to time).
Really it's no big deal (and faster) to make "these edits" in an audio editor and just reopen PT and session after (being sure not to rename the orig filenames).

Fades/editing:
Ok, I think I've got what you're saying here. It works, but geez there's a lot of tool switching/clicking around you have to adhere to just to make these simple edits/trims/waveform moveing along the timeline. And the mode selections... ;( I'm kinda bummed about that.
Plus sometimes you really have to zoom in to get the fade edit tool to do it's thing (with quick fades, etc). It's really seems unnecessary imo with an audio app of today.

So you mentined you work with Vegas too...you know how their UI is and edit tools are used...has anyone ever suggested to digi these types of func/UI features within PT (of all flavors)? I just think it could do away with so much of the tool selection needs. Really speeds things up.

Does PT 8 address some of this by chance?

Other than that (and the bouncing) I think it's fine.

I really want to thank you for replying with all this.

And yes, there's more ref manual reading I'll be doing. I just thought there might be some configuring I could do to speed up some things and edit the way I like.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2009, 06:36 AM
SixChurchStreet SixChurchStreet is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

I can honestly say that I love the workflow and tools in Vegas, and I also love the workflow and tools in Pro Tools. I wouldn't change either. For video stuff, I find Vegas blows everything else away I've ever used, including Premiere, Avid Liquid, and Final Cut. And I feel the same way about Pro Tools for audio. With both programs, I instantly felt "at home" and that everything was very intuitive, even if they work differently when comparing them side by side.

I like the multiple tools in Pro Tools. I've never found them cumbersome. It's like anything else I guess. You get used to something, it becomes second nature, and you no longer thing about it.

I forget the shortcuts for changing the tools offhand, but it's the Fkeys on the top of the keyboard. I used to have a little cutout that I taped above the keys with pictures of the tools on them, to switch them that way, but I eventually found that going up to click on whatever tool I wanted was the best for me. The SuperTool (combining the middle three) is also very handy too. Though surprisingly, I prefer to switch them as I need them. I don't like my cursor changing jobs depending on where my mouse is. Makes me nervous. lol.

I agree with you regarding audio restoration. If I had some stereo files that I needed to clean up, I'd definitely use Sound Forge instead. Mostly because I don't have any "cleanup" plugins for Pro Tools. But like you said, you can just clean 'em up, save the .wav and import it into Pro Tools.

If Vegas would someday integrate MIDI and become a more full on, multitrack audio app (funny, because it started out as that!), I'd definitely considering sessioning a bit in Vegas. I haven't used it much lately, as I haven't had any video projects lately.

I'm happy to reply to these posts. I don't know how many people here use Vegas in addition to Pro Tools, so I figured I could give you some good constrasting answers, especially seeing as I'm unbiased and I like both pieces of software very much.

So feel free to keep asking stuff. :)
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:44 PM
jojo99 jojo99 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about PT mpowered 7.4cs8 - vs. (other)

Yeah I understand where you're coming from, and I'm already getting used to things in PT, I'm liking it.

I guess I'm saying that even just the addition of utilizing how vegas handles these basic editing aspects, it would tie in well with everything PT LE and HD, make PT nearly perfect (very little tool selection need in Vegas, where most of the key edit tools are at your disposal with the varied cursor actions. It creates a great flow).

Well my post/list was lengthy, and I appreciate the replies.

Oh BTW:

Quote:
If Vegas would someday integrate MIDI and become a more full on, multitrack audio app (funny, because it started out as that!), I'd definitely considering sessioning a bit in Vegas. I haven't used it much lately, as I haven't had any video projects lately.
check out Acid Pro 6 or 7 for some sessions (and...basically it's just Vegas with midi/soft-synth/more). I think it's great, gets the work I need done.
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