Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-04-2007, 12:57 AM
cheekypaul cheekypaul is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Middle England
Posts: 766
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I never thought I'd say this, but maybe you should look at buying a HD rig. You can find them second hand for surprising cheap.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say is "cheap" in this case?
Hi, there's a HD 2 system with a 192 interface on Ebay for $13,000 AUD (about $10,000 USD).

I have spent at least half that on LE gear and software, and much more on processors and plug-ins.
Have you noticed the difference in price between RTAS and TDM recently?
__________________
Mac Computers/PT12/Lots Of Lacie D2s
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-04-2007, 01:15 AM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,245
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Yes, I have it's pretty huge. I have confirmed that versions that share RTAS and TDM compatibility are exactly the same also; just depends on what source of DSP they draw from.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-04-2007, 11:07 AM
P Mackey P Mackey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago/Rockford
Posts: 24
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

I just recently made the switch from an HP laptop running Cubase sx3 through a Firepod to a MacPro with the 002. Certain things are a little disappointing to me. In Cubase you can have as many tracks as you want(as far as I know), and PTLE has 32. Cubase had unlimited mp3 conversion and OMF conversion. PTLE? Nope, unless you wanna drop some extra coin. Sure, I am loving the reliability of the new system and the editing seems a little easier, but I'm waiting for the day that Digi stops hindering our creative process in order to make extra money, especially with features that are being featured by the competition for free. And I've only had this for a few weeks. Wow, I hope Digi gets with the program. /rant.
__________________
Mac Pro 2x2.0GHz Dual 2GB RAM
Pro Tools LE 7.1.1
OSX 10.4.10

MacBook 2.16GHz Dual core
2GB RAM(max)
OSX 10.4.10
Pro Tools LE 7.1.1
Digi002
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-04-2007, 12:22 PM
Jeff Ulmer Jeff Ulmer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Canada
Posts: 602
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Quote:
Quote:
I never thought I'd say this, but maybe you should look at buying a HD rig. You can find them second hand for surprising cheap.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say is "cheap" in this case?
I'm wondering this too. The whole point of the OP's suggestion for a TDMless HD system is that you can use the power of a modern PCIe CPU - the used systems being offered are PCI, and anyone who has dealt with a chassis knows how much trouble they are. No thanks. Also, 10K used is a lot different than $1300 new for a rack version.

I agree with most of the OP's suggestions - track count increase, surround, etc. An expansion option that costs half as much as the whole system for an additional 16 tracks and multitrack beat Detective is pretty steep, especially if you don't need the extra plugs.

For that matter I'd be happy if they ditched the pres, I certainly don't need them. I'd prefer better input/output connectors, perhaps those combination XLR/1/4"TRS. Perhaps the inputs should be modularized - a pre option or XLR connectors.

My situation is a move from Mix+ to LE, and so far it has been a major PITA. Running out of CPU on a Mac Pro for no apparent reason, constant CPU spikes, losing contact with the interface all the time... while I'm not ruling out user error, this certainly wasn't plug and play.

The LE feature set is certainly lagging behind the competition. I'm debating moving to Digital Performer which for the price offers far more.
__________________
Recording artist/Engineer/Producer
Waves beta tester
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-04-2007, 04:04 PM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,245
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I never thought I'd say this, but maybe you should look at buying a HD rig. You can find them second hand for surprising cheap.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say is "cheap" in this case?
I'm wondering this too. The whole point of the OP's suggestion for a TDMless HD system is that you can use the power of a modern PCIe CPU - the used systems being offered are PCI, and anyone who has dealt with a chassis knows how much trouble they are. No thanks. Also, 10K used is a lot different than $1300 new for a rack version.

I agree with most of the OP's suggestions - track count increase, surround, etc. An expansion option that costs half as much as the whole system for an additional 16 tracks and multitrack beat Detective is pretty steep, especially if you don't need the extra plugs.

For that matter I'd be happy if they ditched the pres, I certainly don't need them. I'd prefer better input/output connectors, perhaps those combination XLR/1/4"TRS. Perhaps the inputs should be modularized - a pre option or XLR connectors.

My situation is a move from Mix+ to LE, and so far it has been a major PITA. Running out of CPU on a Mac Pro for no apparent reason, constant CPU spikes, losing contact with the interface all the time... while I'm not ruling out user error, this certainly wasn't plug and play.

The LE feature set is certainly lagging behind the competition. I'm debating moving to Digital Performer which for the price offers far more.
Hi, I run DP 5, as well as Peak Pro 5 and Sound Forge. I'll probably get Nuendo within the next year also. I highly recommend Digital Performer. 5.11 is very stable and yes, the feature set blows the competition out of the water. If you score for film, this app is for you. With a PCI 424 card you can get huge I/O all at 96k and 24-Bit. Pro Tools handles certain things better (for instance - I can't offset QT for a PCI video card within DP [only handles out via FW] and also DP doesn't have quarter frames, or 23.976 as a frame rate).

Both Pro Tools LE and Digital Performer occupy my system quite happily. I love when I buy plug-ins that are compatible for both RTAS and MAS/AU. Different apps for different purposes.

But one thing's for sure: if you record high end music, orchestras, a big budget record - whatever. The producers are gonna want to see a HD rig & 192's. That won't change for a while. When it does, it'll most probably be Pyramix running the show... now there's an app worth a look in... PC only though.

BTW, DP is Mac only...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,245
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Quote:
I just recently made the switch from an HP laptop running Cubase sx3 through a Firepod to a MacPro with the 002. Certain things are a little disappointing to me. In Cubase you can have as many tracks as you want(as far as I know), and PTLE has 32. Cubase had unlimited mp3 conversion and OMF conversion. PTLE? Nope, unless you wanna drop some extra coin. Sure, I am loving the reliability of the new system and the editing seems a little easier, but I'm waiting for the day that Digi stops hindering our creative process in order to make extra money, especially with features that are being featured by the competition for free. And I've only had this for a few weeks. Wow, I hope Digi gets with the program. /rant.
Hi, if you purchase the Music Toolkit, you can run 48 stereo tracks (which really is 96 'voices'). They throw in a nice reverb also...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-04-2007, 04:30 PM
jre3132 jre3132 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,247
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but how?)

Quote:
I never thought I'd say this, but maybe you should look at buying a HD rig.
I agree with Phil on getting the HD rig.

LE is consumer (not professional)

HD is professional

That doesn't mean LE is horrible or you're bad for owning a LE system, it just means you can't expect the Limited Edition to have the same features as the "un-limited." If you want to have all the tools the pros have, get an HD rig. Why would Digi make their lower end line with all the features their high end line has?

They put out the products and let you decide what catagory you fall into. You've paid for the lower line and expect them to give you the high end features. Its never worked that way on anything.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.7 Quad Core Intel
Mac OS X 10.13.2
PT Ultimate HDX 2019.10
64GB RAM
HDX I/O 16x16 Analog
HDX I/O 8x8x8
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-04-2007, 07:25 PM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,245
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but how?)

I'm just glad that Digi keep the closing the LE - HD gap with every release with their software. DV Toolkit's release a few years back was a boon for post guys who need to do little jobs on the road, or at home - whatever...

I can't tell you the times I've been working on films, using a high end Pro Tools system doing the most menial, basic tasks that bloody Quick Time could do, or even just Pro Tools free!

Digi - keep up the good work. Academy Awards and the like don't come easy...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-04-2007, 07:43 PM
DrDVD DrDVD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: US, Asia and Europe
Posts: 131
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools

First time back on the DUC since original posting, appreciating the thougthful comments.

Quote:
I never thought I'd say this, but maybe you should look at buying a HD rig.
Thing is, i did buy an HD2 rig - for the studio - but there's no way i'm gonna drop another $10k + TDM plugs just to be able to work on my mixes at home, especially when the competition offers essentially the same functionality for a fraction of the price.

I made the point in previous posts that i and other producers like me represent an emerging and rapidly growing market of pros who work with HD in the studio but need a home/mobile rig that will let us work on the same sessions from the studio, which sometimes include 5.1 mixes or 192k sessions, which we can't work with on the current incarnation of LE. This essentially doubles the cost of HD for us, and thus doubles the already astronomical price gap between HD and the host-based competition (e.g. DP, Cubase 4, Nuendo, Logic, et al). Fewer and fewer people are going to be willing to do that when you can get far better hardware and almost-as-good (overall) software for a fraction of the price in the native domain.

So, like Phil and many others, instead of buying two HD rigs, i've learned to live with shuttling sessions and files back and forth between various apps (at at $400 premium, i might add, since Digi charges extra for AAF/OMF import/export even in the high end HD, while all the competing apps include it for free!). This works, but it's a royal PITA, and i'd much rather stay in the PT interface (which i LOVE). Unfortunately, Digi doesn't yet have a product to fill the gaping chasm between LE and HD. I presume that's why my last thread on the topic became the most read and replied-to thread in the Mac LE Forum (besides the venerable "Mac Mixes") for many months running a while back.

Obviously a lot of users are in the same boat... and i'm very happy to see Digi has taken notice (see the interesting post from Digi's Senior Marketing Director ).

I'm certainly not saying everyone is in my boat. Some folks (including collaborators of mine) are well-enough served by their 002s and LE (especially when using quality external clocking and conversion). But, increasingly, the LE line seems like it's only really well suited for the entry-to-mid-budget video post production crowd (as long as you're not doing surround mixes), and for just about everyone else, there are much better options now (including the M-Audio stuff, especially with the Lightbridge paired with high-end converters).

IMHO, etc...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-04-2007, 07:57 PM
DrDVD DrDVD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: US, Asia and Europe
Posts: 131
Default Re: 003: PT LE is dead! Long live Pro Tools (but h

Quote:
I have to say, what I said at Gearslutz.... It's intriguing that Digi's Senior Director of Product Marketing would admit that the 003 was not designed to be an upgrade, but a "refresh". One might ask, Why not call it the 002N or some variation of the same name. (Nikon did that with the FM2N if you're into photography.) Dah... then everyone would have immediately realized that they hadn't put any real effort in it, and that it's NOT an upgrade to the 002.

I can see that if I didn't own an 002, and I was looking to get into PTLE, that the 003 makes sense, but the fact is that in the few years since the 002 came out, a lot of things have changed, particularly computer capability and what the competition offers.

I know I'm not alone in saying my production chops are far progressed from 5 years ago. I have the Blacklion Mod, but I now use API an NEVE etc., so sound quality has already been taken care of... The jog wheel etc., is a non issue for Rack owners, especially those of us with midi controllers.

Digi obviously have a new product or product line in the works for 002 owners to upgrade and we'll probably hear about it this spring (be prepared to open your wallets), but this Director of Marketing should probably lose his job, or at least get a good lecture from his superiors.
Not saying this to be contentious, Windshore, but i really think this is a smart post from Digi, and i really respect David Gibbons for making it (and only wanna scold him for only posting it in the Windows forum ).

Those of us who have been around the DUC for a while know how rare it is for Digi to tip their hand regarding forthcoming products, but in this case, what it says to me is that they're listening to their customers who are telling them we're not being well served by their current offerrings and we want to give them our money but first they have to offer us a product that meets our needs at a reasonably competitive price (OK, we all know we're gonna pay a little more for a little less with Digi, but at least it needs to be in the ballpark so we don't feel totally insulted and stomp off in a huff to Nuendo/DP/Logic/etc.). What it says to me is that they want their customers to know they haven't abandoned us (which will save me thousands of dolllars in therapy bills dealing with my abandonment issues, so maybe i can afford a second HD rig after all...). But seriously, this is the kind of clear communication that wins (and retains) customer loyalty in a way that the "Cone of Silence" can't do.

I applaud David Gibbons and Digi for letting us know that they're listening. I just hope they are listening well, because we really want to stay on the Digi platform (because of the software, not the hardware, dontcha know). And to do that, we need, minimally: surround support, 192k support, flexible I/O options (so we can use our gazillion-dollar boutique preamps and converters on every channel, not just two via S/PDIF), and automatic delay compensation.

Thanks for listening!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long Live DSP Tom Hartman Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 13 02-21-2011 03:19 PM
This is the plugin i've been waiting for! Studer is Dead long live Tape crizdee Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 1 12-03-2010 07:41 AM
The Mix is Dead! Long live the MIX!!! hokuspocus Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 31 03-25-2004 12:14 PM
The Mix is Dead! Long Live the Mix!!! Chromefree Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 03-22-2004 06:53 AM
Pro Tools for live recording - long sessions... Raven Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 2 11-28-2000 10:14 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com