Send Mutes to Follow Channel Mutes

[Jeff E]

Here is where I want to end up..

I want my sends to be in Pre Fader so that the levels are not effected by the Channel fader. But I want my Mutes to be in post Fader so that when I mute the channel the send mutes as well. Can I do this some how? Is there a magic box to click some where?

My set up is that I am using a send to go to my Ferman headphone system and need to be able to mute certain channels but they need to be pre fader when it comes to levels.

Thanks..

Jeff

[Ru_C]

Originally Posted by Jeff E

Here is where I want to end up..

I want my sends to be in Pre Fader so that the levels are not effected by the Channel fader. But I want my Mutes to be in post Fader so that when I mute the channel the send mutes as well. Can I do this some how? Is there a magic box to click some where?

My set up is that I am using a send to go to my Ferman headphone system and need to be able to mute certain channels but they need to be pre fader when it comes to levels.

Thanks..

Jeff

Hi Jeff, yeah i've wondered about this one myself, but never found a way.

A couple of questions...

* Are you using PT with a control surface &/or a monitor controller (presonus central station or suchlike)?

* why do you need to this in your workflow?

I ask, as i've done some fairly complex monitor setups recently, & there can often be a solution with a bit of lateral thinking..

[Jeff E]

Ru_C

Yes we are using the Euphonix control system and it works great. I have not thought about using that in this yet to get this to happen. We are using the Presonus central station for monitor levels and switching - it also works great.

We are using the Furman HDS-16 system which also works wonderfully.. So much more robust than the Hear system over all. we use the talk back on the Hrm-16 boxes for talk back in the control room which is great as a work around for going mixer-less.

AS far as work flow. We have a template set up in PT 8 that has all the 8 sends to the Furman system. We usually do a stereo mix of the drums and then allow every one else to build up the rest how they want.

When we are tracking something like BGV and we build one track at a time there are times when we want one track muted as in someone doubling a vocal part. So as that track has a send to the head phone mix just muting the channel does not remove it from the send. So it is still playing in the head phone mix but not in the control room - sometimes to our embarrassment. :)
So, yes we can mute one at a time but it would be much easier to mute just the one.

Thanks
Jeff E

[Carl Kolchak]

The two ways that spring to my mind are as follows:

1. When you hit mute, remember to also bypass the send for that channel (this requires two button pushes / mouse clicks).

2. Set up intermediate Aux channels that are grouped with you audio tracks, so that when the original track is muted it kills the feed from the intermediate Aux to the headphone amp (this only requires one button push / mouse click, but could end up using a ton of resources).

Food for thought.

[Danny Caccavo]

Funny how some of us grew up with consoles where the channel mute would mute the pre-fader send and some of us didn't.....I always wanted to have the option for the former in Pro Tools....

-Danny

[Jeff E]

Originally Posted by Danny Caccavo

Funny how some of us grew up with consoles where the channel mute would mute the pre-fader send and some of us didn't.....I always wanted to have the option for the former in Pro Tools....

-Danny

Thats exactly waht my partner said..

[Jeff E]

Originally Posted by Carl Kolchak

The two ways that spring to my mind are as follows:

1. When you hit mute, remember to also bypass the send for that channel (this requires two button pushes / mouse clicks).

2. Set up intermediate Aux channels that are grouped with you audio tracks, so that when the original track is muted it kills the feed from the intermediate Aux to the headphone amp (this only requires one button push / mouse click, but could end up using a ton of resources).

Food for thought.

Thanks Carl,
The resources thing is the issue.. we cold switch back to the tracking mix but it messes with all the DSP and all .. and its a pain..

[tj_davies]

Originally Posted by Carl Kolchak

The two ways that spring to my mind are as follows:

1. When you hit mute, remember to also bypass the send for that channel (this requires two button pushes / mouse clicks).

2. Set up intermediate Aux channels that are grouped with you audio tracks, so that when the original track is muted it kills the feed from the intermediate Aux to the headphone amp (this only requires one button push / mouse click, but could end up using a ton of resources).

Food for thought.

3. Instead of muting, deactivate the track.

Timothy

[Ru_C]

Originally Posted by Jeff E

Ru_C

Yes we are using the Euphonix control system and it works great. I have not thought about using that in this yet to get this to happen. We are using the Presonus central station for monitor levels and switching - it also works great.

We are using the Furman HDS-16 system which also works wonderfully.. So much more robust than the Hear system over all. we use the talk back on the Hrm-16 boxes for talk back in the control room which is great as a work around for going mixer-less.

AS far as work flow. We have a template set up in PT 8 that has all the 8 sends to the Furman system. We usually do a stereo mix of the drums and then allow every one else to build up the rest how they want.

When we are tracking something like BGV and we build one track at a time there are times when we want one track muted as in someone doubling a vocal part. So as that track has a send to the head phone mix just muting the channel does not remove it from the send. So it is still playing in the head phone mix but not in the control room - sometimes to our embarrassment. :)
So, yes we can mute one at a time but it would be much easier to mute just the one.

Thanks
Jeff E

Yes, i feel your pain !

One solution, does your control surface have a 'send to faders' feature like the procontrol does?

If so, you could

1) Route the stereo output of the furman unit *back* to the TRS2 input of your Central station. This would give you a quick way of monitoring what the artist is hearing, without messing up your main mix.

2) Flip the appropriate 'send to faders' on your control surface. Now pressing 'mute' on a track should mute the send. You can flip between hearing the control room & artist mix by selecting TRS1 or TRS2 on your central station remote.

Alternatively

1) set the BV tracks being recorded to post-fader send, & set the main fader level at unity/0Db, but set the output to 'No Output'

2) create a post-fader send on these tracks that goes to an AUX called BV's, this send will be the control room volume control.

Use this Aux to monitor what is being recorded on the BV tracks. Muting any BV track will mute them to the BV AUX too.

More food for thought, along with the other suggestions.