Connecting a Mixer

[RichrdC]

Hello to all...
I use the MAudio MBoxIII to input my guitar and/or microphones into ProTools. I'm wondering if I can use a mixer like the Mackie Mix12FX 12-Channel Compact Mixer as my link to the system? I'm wondering if you can map an input on the Mackie, to a specific channel strip of Pro Tools. Thanks for the help,
RichrdC

[Darryl Ramm]

MAudio MBox III? You mean an Avid MBox 3?

On the mixer, heck no. The Mackie Mix series are about as simple/dumb as small mixers get today. They don't even have a USB or other connection that you could connect to a computer.

Some mixers will provide a mix output to a DAW/computer, some will provide discrete track outputs. In this case there is nothing. And few mixers provide any DAW integration, like the faders typically won't integrate with a DAW via HUI. And the preamps in many of these very low-cost mixers are just not great (they may not be great in many low-cost interfaces either... but you can get pretty impressive/clean preamps at mid price points at least in interfaces).

What exactly are you trying to do? What music/musician related problem are you trying to solve?

I'm not sure why you are interested in a mixer. If you want to mix live, say in a band practice session then use a live mixer, the stereo mix out or individual tracks or ability to play backing tracks out of a DAW into a (more capable) mixer might be great.

If you need a live mixer for band practice or live performance then get a mixer. If you are after an interface for recording and don't actually need a live mixer then get an audio interface. And it's very likely beyond time to dump the Mbox 3 or whatever you have.

Many modern interfaces will have some form of hardware monitoring, which might or might not be useful to you, or you might entirely ignore, some of those have sophisticated hardware mixers built in (esp. UAD with their Console mixer, and RME with their TotalMix mixer) that may cover some situations where you think you need a hardware mixer today.

I'm going to guess you really should be upgrading your interface: There are great interfaces available from many vendors, e.g. RME, UAD, Focusrite, Motu, (and others that I'd run far away from) No idea what platform you are on, if Windows make sure there is a high quality ASIO driver provided from the vendor (do not use ASIO4ALL). You can look through Vintage King or Sweetwater websites to see what is available, maybe read some product manuals to understand what their different features mean etc. You also need to make sure the drivers available for the interface are compatible with the OS version you are running. Software is very important here, I want to see vendors have high-quality in-house developed drivers, long term driver engineering support, and quality customer support, and that excludes many vendors, including any Avid consumer focused interfaces.

And if you think you might need future input expansion, look for an interface with ADAT input so you can add an ADAT mic preamp.

[RichrdC]

Thanks for the insights.. I've got a Windows 10 computer which is a couple years old, 32 gig RAM with an Icon QCon ProX DAW and the Mbox3..
I'm lookin' for a cheap mixer in order for the group I play with to be more or less silent when we're jamming Right now, I route through the RCA connections on a Mackie P.A. to a headphone hub. Playing like this keeps the rest of the family from retreating to the far reaches of the house when we're playing but the P.A. doesn't have Pan.
So I figure get a mixer, we'll plug into the mixer, out to the headphone hub, and we can separate the players..
Now I start thinking, it would be kind of nice to be able to record through the mixer.. I thought there's a possibility of mapping each mixer channel to a corresponding channel strip on the Qcon Prox. From reading what you posted, I'm gettin' the feeling it's more involved than I think.
I've also thought about upgrading the Mbox3.. Which upgrade to the Mbox3 do you like?
So that's it.. Thanks for reading this

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by RichrdC

Thanks for the insights.. I've got a Windows 10 computer which is a couple years old, 32 gig RAM with an Icon QCon ProX DAW and the Mbox3..
I'm lookin' for a cheap mixer in order for the group I play with to be more or less silent when we're jamming Right now, I route through the RCA connections on a Mackie P.A. to a headphone hub. Playing like this keeps the rest of the family from retreating to the far reaches of the house when we're playing but the P.A. doesn't have Pan.
So I figure get a mixer, we'll plug into the mixer, out to the headphone hub, and we can separate the players..
Now I start thinking, it would be kind of nice to be able to record through the mixer.. I thought there's a possibility of mapping each mixer channel to a corresponding channel strip on the Qcon Prox. From reading what you posted, I'm gettin' the feeling it's more involved than I think.
I've also thought about upgrading the Mbox3.. Which upgrade to the Mbox3 do you like?
So that's it.. Thanks for reading this

Uh terminology. The Icon ProX is not a DAW, it is a control surface, that supports HUI or MCU protocols. Pro Tools only support HUI if you want to control that. If you are using the DAW that came with the control surface then that's apparently Bitwig.

If band practice is your primary need then a live mixer is likely the way to go. If you want to record that to a DAW then look for one with individual track outputs over USB. You can look at the mixers available from Yamaha (but ones with multiple track outputs are likely too high end/$$$), SSL, Tascam, Mackie, or Beringer, and similar, either fully digital ones, or some analog ones with multi-channel USB I/O. (Previously I'd point at Presonus Live mixers, but Presonus are really annoying me with some crappy product releases, awful documentation, and seemingly exclusive focus on their own DAW. So I'd give them a wide pass now). You have to look at the details of the mixers to see if their USB interfaces are providing only a master mix or maybe a master mix and a submix, or if they really provide I/O for channels--what you want to use with a DAW. You'll see thing like their specs the USB interface they provide as 2x2 (main mix out only and a stereo track into the mixer -- not what you want) or 16x16 etc (what you want on a 16 track mixer).

The low cost mixers are very likely to have not great preamps, regardless of all the vendor preamp marketing. But if you are only using this for practice it may not matter. Many of these USB interfaces in the mixers also won't have leading low-latency performance that you can get from the best interfaces (some mixers only rely on USB Audio class compliant drivers that don't have great performance), but the assumption is you are monitoring though the mixer hardware not the DAW so monitoring latency is not usually an issue.

Typical low-cost digital mixers are not going to interoperate with the HUI/MCU features of the Icon Pro X. So you'll be dealing with a separate set of faders/controls etc. in the mixer. The Icon ProX has nothing really to do with this, it's just the control surface to the DAW and keeps doing what it's doing with the DAW. But some rack mount mixers might support some HUI/MCU control but that's likely a rare feature. OTOH some digital mixers might support HUI/MCU Out which mean they are potential candidates to replace your Icon ProX. You have to look around and dig into what is available in your price range.

---

It sounds like you mostly need a mixer for practice that can operate as a USB audio interface when needed. In which case you'll not be using the MBox 3. If you do go looking for another dedicated interface here is no direct "upgrade to the MBox 3", there is a wide range of nice interfaces available from multiple vendors, I already mentioned RME, UAD, Foucusrtite, Motu and suggested you spend time looking at what interfaces are available and understand their features. My own bias in the low-mid capacity interface tier would be to an RME UCX II or UFX II or UFX III, not the cheapest stuff but great quality and technical support. And just to throw a spanner into this whole thinking, you could actually use the TotalMix Windows GUI, iPad Remote, or MCU control on your Icon Pro X to control the TotalMix hardware mixer built into these RME interfaces. So maybe you actually could go that way. Realizing it would take a little more messing around setting up stuff. Look at some of the videos on YouTube about RME TotalMix to see what it does/looks like to use.

[RichrdC]

Boy, you've been more than helpful..Thanks for spending the time. Yeah, studio terminology hasn't been my strong point.. I'm going to take to heart what you've posted here, and start doing some research and really starting to understand what I need to do to have the rig I want. Thanks again.. Take care

[RichrdC]

Does this mixer take the place of something like the Mbox3? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=1&cid=10&th=1

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by RichrdC

Does this mixer take the place of something like the Mbox3? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=1&cid=10&th=1

Personally, I would lean toward something more like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-XR1...03&sr=1-1&th=1
Get an iPad(or several, or your iPhones. Add the mixing app and each player could mix their own headphones).

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by RichrdC

Does this mixer take the place of something like the Mbox3? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=1&cid=10&th=1

The L-12 is a compact digital mixer that does act as a USB interface... 14in 4 out (aka 14x4) (as well as having a build in recorder to SD card... which many digital mixers have today). Meaning 14 channels to the DAW and 4 outputs from the DAW (for you to playback stuff to the mixer, like backing tracks, or maybe guitar amp sims or VIs etc.). Since you are on Windows, if using Pro Tools, and ideally really for any DAW you want an ASIO driver from the vendor (don't use ASIO4ALL) and I believe Zoom has that. And they have a driver for Mac. And they have a class compliance mode that lets this work with say an iPad. All of which is great... except there are some complaints online about problems with their ASIO driver. You might want to look into those and see if they might still be relevant/how people got on etc. Like with audio interfaces the quality of drivers and how long vendors support those (and in this case with a complex product also provide firmware updates) is important and something you can get by looking at other Zoom product updates and what OS versions their drivers are supported on and have been updated for.

Other things you need to check for yourself, like are there enough mono vs. stereo tracks in the mixer, the effects, or sub-mixes, or mic inserts etc. that you might want.

These Zoom units are fairly plasticy/build down to a price, but that may be all you want/need. And almost certainly the preamps in these mixers will sound worse than available in more expensive interfaces, and they may just be noisy, suffer from hum problems, especially with lots of devices connected etc. For any of these I'd buy from a vendor with a good return policy, here Amazon.com is a good choice.

There are lots of devices in this category so take some time to look around. Again, there are some that will operate as a HUI/MCU control surfaces with motorized faders so could potentially replace the control surfaces you have already.

[RichrdC]

I am leaning towards replacing the Icon Qcon Pro X if I can find the right fit where I'm able to connect instruments & vocals to the unit & record and I can retire the Mbox3 at the same time. Again thank you and Dave for being there to offer up ways to help us semi literate music makers!! Take care

[RichrdC]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Personally, I would lean toward something more like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-XR1...03&sr=1-1&th=1
Get an iPad(or several, or your iPhones. Add the mixing app and each player could mix their own headphones).

Hello Dave, Thanks for the link to the Studio on FB. I'll guess and say you're the guy in the middle of the image. :)

That XR18 looks great but am I to think it only works with iPad tablets and things? I don't think so, but.....I play around on a Windows 10 desktop.

I guess my ultimate next purchase would be something that replaces the MBox3 and is my connection to recording more than one instrument at a time into Pro Tools, and also could act as a stand alone that I can sit on a table, plug in some instruments & vocals and then route them to a headphone hub so we can jam without waking up the neighbors. For some reason I think I could do that with my Laptop and the XR18..

I'm probably wrong but I can wish, right? Take care now. Sorry for rambling on. Long day at work... Richrdc